Cold weather use.

[JohnRiordan]

Alright hoping to get some input on a thought I had. Last winter I had some freezing issues with the water. I have a 29hfs with the cold package. Well whoever else has this package and he used it knows it's not so extreme. PH you know what I am talking about. The enclosed underbelly has a thin layer of insulation in there as well and most of the water lines run in the underbelly as well and not through the cabin. If temps stay below freezing for a period of time they freeze up. I would like to get some heat under in that area. If the 29hfs had a big enough furnace I could just cut a hole under sink and run a vent to the underbelly, so that won't work. I thought about cutting hole in corrugated plastic underneath and using a ceramic space heater with duct work to get the heat there. Anyone have suggestions.

[KenHwy61]

I would agree with your assessment. Cold weather packages are really more for late autumn rather than for actual winter use. I have also thought about putting a small space heater underneath with the ability to plug it directly in to the power pedestal rather than using up the available camper power. I'm not sure you would have to add any ducting to it. I also thought of using a line voltage thermostat in the circuit to keep the basement just above freezing. I currently have my underbelly cover off to add a second water tank so I bought some 1/2 pipe insulation and am going to insulate the water lines. In my case I don't plan to live in sub-zero weather I just want to extend the season.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by KenHwy61

I bought some 1/2 pipe insulation and am going to insulate the water lines.

What do you expect the pipe insulation to do? It won't help to keep,the pipes from freezing unless you have some form of heat (heat tape) inside of it. Otherwise, insulating the water pipes is a waste of time and money.

Bruce

[northstar1960]

drop the underbelly add foam board i did 2" in my case . wrapped all tanks with reflective insulation . put pipe wrap on all water lines . the foam pipe insulation will help a great deal slowing the water in the lines from freezing . this is fine for a few nights or more below freezing . if you plan on spending lots of time in cold weather [below freezing ] for extended periods then you will need to heat tape the lines or as you mention heat the underbelly .

[KenHwy61]

I would think the insulation would reduce the heat loss in the water lines and buy some time when overnights dip below 32 degrees. I would just like to camp into at least November when the days warm into the 40-50s but the nights are in the 20-30s. It very well may be a complete waste of time but pipe insulation is cheap and I already have everything exposed so easy to do at this point.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by KenHwy61

I would think the insulation would reduce the heat loss in the water lines and buy some time when overnights dip below 32 degrees. I would just like to camp into at least November when the days warm into the 40-50s but the nights are in the 20-30s. It very well may be a complete waste of time but pipe insulation is cheap and I already have everything exposed so easy to do at this point.

It'll help a lot in the conditions you posted . wrap the tanks while your down there

[Play Harder]

OT. -- not freezing yet but perfect NW weather camping this weekend 😜😜

[Play Harder]

I'm hoping to have a 2nd furnace installed in garage to heat garage and under belly by end of month --

Having current furnace replaced to NT 30 and moving the 19btu to garage....... And add foam block insulation to underbelly

[stevejd235]

Originally Posted by Play Harder

I'm hoping to have a 2nd furnace installed in garage to heat garage and under belly by end of month --

Having current furnace replaced to NT 30 and moving the 19btu to garage....... And add foam block insulation to underbelly

PH,
Can't wait to see the write up and pictures on this one...

[Play Harder]

And hopefully a slider door in too 😎


Get out and Play Harder😛

2016 XLR Hyper Lite 29hsf - loaded picked up 3-24-2015😊
2008 Can Am Spyder
Kite Boarding is my Addiction - GOT WIND!

[WolfWhistle]

PH did the NT30 fit in the same space?

I added a cloth type / foil insulation on floors and added pipe insulation on all supply lines. I have thought of dropping the belly coroplast and add 1" blue board or the yellow stuff with the foil on both sides. I like the idea of a vented 19k in the garage as well as heating the underfloor space .. but have a cast iron pot belly stove new in the box...

Our biggest issue is the thin walls and lack of enough ceiling cavity to insulate properly... Oh wait, it is hyperlite.

Have you seen how the build the Arctic fox? Fully enclosed and heated belly... a double floor... She's heavy. They make a TH ... Called Desert Fox.
WW

[Play Harder]

Yes the NT series fits the NT 30 draws 4.5 amps the bigger NT 34 -7amps NT 40 8.5 amps all have same dimensions- u do have to remove center piece and bottom wood trim to get the NT in All wood trim pieces are square screwed in and easy to remove - current 19btu is held in w 2 screws - the plat form that the furnace sit on have to be lowered to ---easy cheesy --

I'm putting 19 Btu furnace above wheel well ledge in garage vented into bathroom sink cabinet down to belly- and to garage --- I'm putting it there do to exhaust / intake and don't want that coming out above the fuel station on the other side

WW Artic Fox are built to handle extreme winters conditions with no problem --- but they are also very very heavy -

Hope to have pic done end next week

[ykdave]

i suppose your plan of attack here would be influenced greatly depending on what you expect out of it.

if you just need to get a couple of worry free days out of it during short cold snaps, id shoot for just trying to insulate the crap out of anything you can get to.

I live out of my XLR at work, whether its +30c or -40c, in my case the only viable options are to skirt the trailer and add heat under the trailer when necessary. "as delivered" id give the trailer credit, weeks of -15c and it would only start to freeze the cold water line at the back of the trailer if the water wasnt used in ~12hrs (the line is right up against the back of the tank cavity, against the steel crossmember). anything colder than that, she was a gamble, if it was windy it would freeze that line.

I chose to go the skirting route, rather than pouring heat into the belly in hopes that things dont freeze. Their are many options for skirting, such as the cloth/canvas which is available insulated as well, but cost can be astronomical, especially if you want a nice custom fit setup (i was quoted $5000-7000 from various companies, Yikes!). Being kindof cheap, and figuring the mice or some other animal would tear up the canvas skirting i opted to build wood/foam board insulation panel skirting. Just 1x2" board frame with 2" blue foam board covered with 1/16" sheeting.

Its nothing fancy, but it literally only took a few hours to put together and a material cost of around $200. with just the skirting i had no issues down to -20c with alot of wind, again that stupid line at the back would then begin to freeze. Tossed a little ceramic heater down there and no issues at -35c windy and ugly for several days.

If you plan on being "mobile" during cold weather use, a rigid skirting is obviously not ideal, the canvas type would also be a bit of a hassle but easier to set-up/tear-down.

without tearing the bottom off the trailer, creating a good airflow path (or even some ducting) and insulting the bottom really well during reassembly, i woudnt personally go the route of trying to blow heat down there.

[sail2liv]

I have been in teens at night 3-5 days with daytime 20s.....with polar package in Small Flagstaff....ran h/c water couple times a night put swim noodle or pipe insl over low point drains and all seemed fine...ran two elec heaters inside on low....and used trailer heater a few times a day to keep basement and belly from frz...also made sure fresh water tank was near full....before freeze....also would take hot water I ran into gallon jug and pour into fresh water tank - probably was not necessary but what can it hurt....heated dump valves seemed to work when I needed them....but not sure if during or after hard freeze....very satisfied with system and product....not sure if would be okay for long winter, but for several days if caught in the cold does fine....

[WolfWhistle]

I have not camped in cold weather but would like to be ready for it. I know the problematic line(s) ykdave speaks of, they lie between the rear gray tank and the 6th (frt to rear) side to side floor girder. Then, down starboard side toward the front. They are a little hard to do, but I insulated the entire length (h/c) that's underneath with the black pipe foam insulation... using Gorilla tape to fasten all joints. I would think if one was to blow hot air into the "belly" from a garage mounted furnace, there would have to be a return air, or supply, on the far opposite end (or side). Looking at my drawing of the "underneath" there might be space enough for a return or supply around the port side of the front gray and black, but the rear gray is tight to that side. It looks to be like any duct running beneath to the trailer front would have to be below the coroplast. For that reason I think it would better to be use the main furnace to supply heat the belly and only use small furnace to heat the garage space. maybe with the door between bath and garage open, the bath.

A good HVAC tech would be nice to know about now.

FYI, from the rear of the front grey tank to the front if the black tank, the space is fairly open. That's from the front end wall 10 feet to 15 feet towards the rear of the trailer. The existing furnace is above that area.

Don't forget the exposed tank drain / dump pipes.
WW

[JohnRiordan]

The main spot where I had or believe I had it freeze was where the low water drain is. I pulled some of the underbelly down and where the line comes up from back and then tees to go up under kitchen well that tee is is close or pushing down against underbelly (coroplast). I cut the the pex and moved the tee closer up toward kitchen sink just enough to where the lines from back can still drain. I then insulated the tee, and the lines within that area. Put the coroplast back up, filled in any gap with black spray foam. There were only two places I found that would work in cutting a hole in the floor to direct some heat underneath. Under kitchen sink or under breaker/converter box. I wanted to do it under the water heater, but a cross beam goes right down the center of it. Toward the back in bathroom area you have the tanks directly underneath, so that wasnt going to work either. I choose under the converter box, cut a 4" hole and mounted a high CFM muffin fan(computer fan) over it. Its right next to the furnace, so when it will draw heat off that and when furnace is not running it would just draw cabin air. Its also pretty center to be in between front and rear tanks. If it works great, if not I'm out 10 bucks. Also in another post somewhere else I mentioned dometic makes a heat strip kit for your AC unit.

[WolfWhistle]

Interesting, JR. I added a heat strip on the greywolf, I didn't think it worked well or was with it. A heat pump unit would work. I just use ceramic space heaters when on shore power. The little heater puts out 3 times the heat I'd the strip IMHO.
WW

[JohnRiordan]

That's what I use also ceramic heaters. I think the spec on the heat strip kit for the AC unit is 1500 watts the same as my space heaters.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by Play Harder

Yes the NT series fits the NT 30 draws 4.5 amps the bigger NT 34 -7amps NT 40 8.5 amps all have same dimensions- u do have to remove center piece and bottom wood trim to get the NT in All wood trim pieces are square screwed in and easy to remove - current 19btu is held in w 2 screws - the plat form that the furnace sit on have to be lowered to ---easy cheesy --

I'm putting 19 Btu furnace above wheel well ledge in garage vented into bathroom sink cabinet down to belly- and to garage --- I'm putting it there do to exhaust / intake and don't want that coming out above the fuel station on the other side

WW Artic Fox are built to handle extreme winters conditions with no problem --- but they are also very very heavy -

Hope to have pic done end next week

your going to suck through the propane . getting 30lbs tanks ? insulating the under belly and getting it cold weather ready is not so bad . you'd be better off putting a low wattage heat tape on water lines and wrap . put the 19 furnace in the cabinet next to the bathroom sink where the vent is . then vent the heated air into the garage doubling or tripleing the size or # of vents . this way you won't use up garage space and nothing under that cabinet but old vents . just a thought

[ykdave]

the heat strip is only slightly more than a basic space heater. most typical space heaters are 1500w and the dometic heat strip is 1800w. IMO not really worth the money (could buy 10 piece of crap space heaters for the cost of adding a heat strip), in the end it is slightly more heat, but you also have to consider the a/c fan moves ALOT more air than the space heater and the air coming out of the vents is going to be cool and uncomfortable if your anywhere in the draft. it does the job, but the comfort level isnt there, especially listening to the blower fan run all the time!