Do Any Upgrades Need To Be Done To Add 6V Batteries

[Crop Duster]

I took the 12V Interstate battery off the tongue and installed 4 Trojan T-105 6V batteries. I will be charging these batteries either off shore power or a Honda 2000W generator. Do any upgrades need to be done to handle these batteries or can you just wire them in and be set to go?

One thing I would like to add is some kind of controller so I can monitor what the charge is on the batteries.

[Homebrewer29]

Increased capacity battery packs may take longer to charge. One of the factors limiting charge rate is the voltage drop from the converter (which charges the batteries when plugged in) due to distance from it to the batteries. You can move the converter within 3 feet of the battery pack or run thicker wires form the converter to the batteries to solve this issue.

If you do not have a 3 stage converter now would be the time to consider one. They charge faster than a single stage converter/charger.

I recommend people use as large of a converter as they can afford and can be run by their generator if they dry camp.

I have a 70 amp Progressive Dyanamics one on my fifth wheel mounted within 3 feet of my battery banks and am impressed by how fast it charges the batteries on the generator.

[Crop Duster]

I'll have to try and find my converter on my 27HFS, not sure where it is located. I'll also looking into maybe a 3 stage. Thanks

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Crop Duster

I'll have to try and find my converter on my 27HFS, not sure where it is located. I'll also looking into maybe a 3 stage. Thanks

First thing that comes to mind, is did you cable them properly. I would use a minimum of 1 AWG copper, but #1/0 is better. I would not consider the #2 AWG or #4 AWG that some use. If you haven't adding any more load, breakers and fuses should be okay.

The converter is inside the WFCO load center; down at the bottom. Take out the top two screws and the front tilts out and pull up if you want to look at it. You probably have a 8955 model, if so, the converter is 55 watts.

You should have now about 450 Ah (225 usable), and 55 amp of charger is a little short. However 90 amps is better. I restrict my charge rate to 80 amps. It should be a 3 stage charger already but voltages (absorb 14.4v, normal 13.6) are kind'a low (float at 13.2v is okay) on the WFCO. The true test of battery state of charge (SOC) is to read specific gravity.

To get these batteries to true 100% SOC bulk should be high current til around 14.6 to 14.8, Absorb is reached, then hold the voltage high until current is down to around 2% of Amp Hour (.02 x 450 = 9v) and hold that for 90 minutes... then go to float (I forgot but think Trojan recommends 13.5v (?). You won't get that with a WFCO and PDI is not adjustable. That leaves you probably going with a good solar charger or a good inverter charger, such as the Magnum... to really getting those new honeys topped off.

If it was me, I would try it like it is; if you spend nearly all your camping at parks and with shore power you should be okay. But if charging times are too slow and if you want those new honeys to last, install a PDI load center with a 90 Amp converter / charger. It needs to have the Wizard option. Now this will necessitate cable from converter to battery upsizing. Guessing here, but probably #1 or #1/0. Ground it with the same.

Is there solar or an inverter in your future?
WW

[Crop Duster]

Thanks for all the info WW. My total amps hours is 450 between the 4 batteries at 225 each. I don't want to upgrade anything yet this winter so I'm hoping everything will jive just fine. I don't ever camp where there are hookups, everything is boondocking.

I'm not sure if I'll go solar on this trailer. I had two sets of battery banks with T-125's and four panels on my last trailer. I'm going to skip it for now and see how well the generator will keep the batteries charged. The problem is I use the trailer mostly for skiing and in the mountains it can be hard to get sun for very long in the winter and taking into consideration that I need to be parked correctly for the most direct shot of sun. Also when it snows it makes the panels almost useless.

I am looking at an inverter in the future. I'd like to wire something in so I can use the outlets.

Seems like you have a ton of knowledge on the topic so you may be hearing more from me.

On a side note, has anyone put their batteries in the generator compartment? I want to build an insulated box for them on the tongue but then I was looking at the gen compartment thinking it would actually be a great place for them. But maybe there is something I'm overlooking.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Crop Duster

Thanks for all the info WW. My total amps hours is 450 between the 4 batteries at 225 each. I don't want to upgrade anything yet this winter so I'm hoping everything will jive just fine. I don't ever camp where there are hookups, everything is boondocking.

I'm not sure if I'll go solar on this trailer. I had two sets of battery banks with T-125's and four panels on my last trailer. I'm going to skip it for now and see how well the generator will keep the batteries charged. The problem is I use the trailer mostly for skiing and in the mountains it can be hard to get sun for very long in the winter and taking into consideration that I need to be parked correctly for the most direct shot of sun. Also when it snows it makes the panels almost useless.

I am looking at an inverter in the future. I'd like to wire something in so I can use the outlets.

Seems like you have a ton of knowledge on the topic so you may be hearing more from me.

On a side note, has anyone put their batteries in the generator compartment? I want to build an insulated box for them on the tongue but then I was looking at the gen compartment thinking it would actually be a great place for them. But maybe there is something I'm overlooking.

I thought about the genset box for the batteries, but maintaining them there would be an issue, so I used that compartment for inverter, solar charger and all that hardware and connections then bought a tongue box, which I modified to mount between the A frame of the tongue. WW 4 230Ah 6 volt batteries are tight in it, but it works. I use a Magnum MS2012 PSW inverter, which has a 125 amp charger (I do restrict it to about 80%) which with the remote monitors, all the parameters of the battery can adjusted. It can take 11.9v (50%) to absolute 100% in a little less than 3 hours with that inverter while on genset (2000w Honda) or shore. I typically get the batteries through absorb, then let the solar panels finish.
WW

[Crop Duster]

Wow, I'd like the same kind of charging times that you are seeing (3 hours).

I looked at the WFCO panel and the sticker on the front says 13.6VDC converter output 55 amps. I went with the larger amp hour batteries hoping I wouldn't drain them so I'm hoping it won't take more than 5 hours to bring them to a full charge if only at 60%-70% discharge.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Crop Duster

Wow, I'd like the same kind of charging times that you are seeing (3 hours).

I looked at the WFCO panel and the sticker on the front says 13.6VDC converter output 55 amps. I went with the larger amp hour batteries hoping I wouldn't drain them so I'm hoping it won't take more than 5 hours to bring them to a full charge if only at 60%-70% discharge.

CD, I have that same converter, but disconnected, since the Magnum and solar are my charging sources. The WFCO voltages or charging scheme, if you want to call it that. Is when batteries are down, the WFCO will produce 55 amps and builds voltage while holding amps as high as it can, until it sees 14.4 volts (that will work), then I think it goes to 13.6 volts, what it calls normal. Only place I have seen the term "normal" as its not a standard term.

Why it takes a long time to charge as best as it can, is its only 55 amp, but also because of the lower 13.6 "nominal" instead of keeping it at 14.4. This is not programmable. So, you will take forever and a day to get to full, which I guestion will ever happen. Try it... after several days on shore power, let the batteries rest for several hours then take a reading with hydrometer.

Can you imagine taking that long to charge via a generator? You can charge FLA batteries from any state of discharge (no deeper than 50% is recommended) but they like to then be fully charged each time. Your idea of only being 30 - 40% down and charging partially via generator will do, its not as good, but when you get it back home, you can let it charge for days on shore power, right?

First thing I recommend you do, besides getting a hydrometer and using it, is get a Trimetric TM-2030 so you can keep an eye on state of charge - SOC. All you need besides the monitor is a shunt. And, maybe some cabling. See diagram attached.

What is a shunt:

Its an instrument grade resistor that can pass a lot of current, and provides a precision voltage drop that monitoring equipment, such as the TM-2030 can depend on when it determines voltage across it. Sort of like converting current to volts. So, no matter the current the shunted voltage is proportionate.

They come in two sizes. The small is when amps in or out is up to 100 amps (100A/100mV) the larger one anything above 100 and up to 500 amps (500A/50mV).
Like you sit, charging at 55 amps, the small one will work and is more accurate but if you go with larger than 600W inverter in your future, you will need the large one.

So the Trimetric monitor wires across the shunt with small comm wire. And, this monitor will work for any upgrade the future holds.

WW

[WolfWhistle]

battery box and what's in the genset bay. Inside the box has been redone and not exactly like the photo anymore.
WW

[Crop Duster]

WW you have an awesome set up. Thank you for the photos and the recommendations. I'm going to doing some additional reading and see what I can learn. Until then I'm working on the mounting for the batteries on the front of the trailer.

[mike.t]

As was mentioned Larger(very large) cables.

[pdqparalegal1]

Originally Posted by Crop Duster

Wow, I'd like the same kind of charging times that you are seeing (3 hours).

I looked at the WFCO panel and the sticker on the front says 13.6VDC converter output 55 amps. I went with the larger amp hour batteries hoping I wouldn't drain them so I'm hoping it won't take more than 5 hours to bring them to a full charge if only at 60%-70% discharge.

Buy a good battery charger from auto supply. Plug it into generator and charge batteries with charger. Bypass all the wiring problems with the converter.

[PSU Turf]

Crop Duster - Are you building a custom battery box? If you are looking to buy a box check out the Power Armor box from Torklift. It is an aluminum box that easily fits between the propane tanks and the front of the trailer. It is vented with a lockable lid. I have two T-105s on one side and sealed off the other side where my charge controller, battery monitor, and inverter are mounted.

[Crop Duster]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

Buy a good battery charger from auto supply. Plug it into generator and charge batteries with charger. Bypass all the wiring problems with the converter.

Good idea

[Crop Duster]

Originally Posted by PSU Turf

Crop Duster - Are you building a custom battery box? If you are looking to buy a box check out the Power Armor box from Torklift. It is an aluminum box that easily fits between the propane tanks and the front of the trailer. It is vented with a lockable lid. I have two T-105s on one side and sealed off the other side where my charge controller, battery monitor, and inverter are mounted.

Those boxes are really nice. I'm almost done with mine and went custom to fit as much in it as possible and leave room on the tongue.

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Crop Duster

Those boxes are really nice. I'm almost done with mine and went custom to fit as much in it as possible and leave room on the tongue.

Don't forget to post photos.

I have abandoned the idea of a manual charger, such as from an auto parts store. Many of them are designed for engine start and some are not all that cheap, as well as most have small outputs (5/15/20 amps). Can you even buy a 90 Amp to 125 Amp standalone (manual) charger that has bulk, absorb, float; not to mention equalize modes? Wait, I did mention that If you can, are they under $250 like a very good IOTA or Progressive? And, did you know some of them will fit into the WFCO housing?
WW

[Mainous]

I just installed two Trojan T-105 batteries to run my furnace overnight. On the initial outing it worked fantastic with plenty of energy left to start the generator the following morning. Appreciate the discussion on faster charging. I have the WFCO 8955 PEC in my 31fqsl. Curious if anyone has experience with the Boondocker unit? I am considering the 75 amp version.

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondoc...955_c_196.html

Thanks,
Jeff

[WolfWhistle]

Originally Posted by Mainous

I just installed two Trojan T-105 batteries to run my furnace overnight. On the initial outing it worked fantastic with plenty of energy left to start the generator the following morning. Appreciate the discussion on faster charging. I have the WFCO 8955 PEC in my 31fqsl. Curious if anyone has experience with the Boondocker unit? I am considering the 75 amp version.

Boondocker Main Board Assembly for WFCO 8955

Thanks,
Jeff

I don't have any experience with it, but they look simply like replacement units for the WFCO and sounds like an improvement over the original. If you go to 75 amp it would be a 36% improvement in charging power, and should shorten the time it takes to complete "Bulk" if it fits into the 8955 space. It seems like all these converters have lower than optimum voltages. What can you do? I'm still scratching my head of the term, "normal" mode, which is a fairly new term. Bulk, Absorb, Float, Equalize is what the industry calls them. Some chargers even have a battery saver mode... to save water when stored. I think they are saying 14.6 Bulk, 13.6 Absorb (is it timed??), 13.2 float and has a "Built-in desulfation cycle" is what they call an occasional Equalize based on what? To be optimal it would be based on actual experience, but I guess they figure who is going to do this, so they just hit it with 15 volts or so every now and then. I tried to find out how Progressive does the "desulfation" mode, but I couldn't find out anything.

BTW, I am upgrading my 29HFS to 50 amp and going with a PD-4590 which is the same as the rest, voltage and mode wise, just that it has 90 amp capability. I will be using it for a backup if my inverter charger fails, or whenever.
WW