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Old 10-26-2015, 08:03 AM   #1
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Heater did OK

Took the camper to a 50th b-day party at a county fair ground. They let us use the one of their camp sites for free (30amp but no water...). We had a couple sleeping in the garage, one person sleeping on the recliner and my wife & I slept in the bedroom. I taped off the duct in the bathroom and the one facing the recliner. This allowed much more air flow back to the garage. We also brought along an electric heater for the garage.

I set the furnace & electric heater to 66 degrees. My remote thermo indicated it got down to 29 degrees overnight outside. The couple in the garage said they had to turn off the electric heater off because it was getting too warm. The person sleeping on the recliner indicated they were "comfy" all night. My wife and I were comfortable as well.

This was the first time we really needed the furnace. It seemed to hold it's own overall. I need more cold weather camping to confirm though.

I know that Wolf and others have modified the heater setup. I will look into this in the future if I find the heater just not keeping up.

Happy Camping...
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:01 AM   #2
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Steve, the heater mod is simply removing cover (making it the supply side) and adding a vent grill and then blocking off ducts works very well in the main cabin, but completely stops air flow TO the garage. You might get a little return air through those ducts, but I have thought of adding a second Wave catalytic heater back there, but wonder if it would ever be used. I also use electric heaters.

I am not 100% comfortable not having some kind of low oxygen alarm. Need to get one... or two.

If you pack in enough people, you don't need heaters... a person generates about 330 BTU/hr... so you had about 1650 BTUs in just 'folks' ... more if they had a spicy supper!
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Old 10-26-2015, 10:29 AM   #3
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WW,
I was thinking the amount of people were also providing heat to the camper. Also, everyone had plenty of blankets for their sleeping area. There was also plenty of beverages consumed at the party and when we go back to the camper. Don't think we could have been cold if we tried...

Knowing I will always bring an extra electric heater if I have someone staying in the garage. I could do your simple heater mod and not worry about the duct work going to the garage.

I never thought about an oxygen monitor. One more item on the shopping list...
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Old 10-27-2015, 01:19 PM   #4
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WW,
I was thinking the amount of people were also providing heat to the camper. Also, everyone had plenty of blankets for their sleeping area. There was also plenty of beverages consumed at the party and when we go back to the camper. Don't think we could have been cold if we tried...

Knowing I will always bring an extra electric heater if I have someone staying in the garage. I could do your simple heater mod and not worry about the duct work going to the garage.

I never thought about an oxygen monitor. One more item on the shopping list...
Shouldn't have a problem with low oxygen with just a couple people .even with a full boat . i'm sure our units are not airtight and always seems to be small drafts in and around the slide . the furnace will not use internal air for combustion . nor will it expel burnt gases in the unit . The furnace mod will work great in all areas except the garage unless you keep the doors open .
since i never sleep anyone in the garage i don't worry about it
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:04 AM   #5
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Shouldn't have a problem with low oxygen with just a couple people .even with a full boat . i'm sure our units are not airtight and always seems to be small drafts in and around the slide . the furnace will not use internal air for combustion . nor will it expel burnt gases in the unit . The furnace mod will work great in all areas except the garage unless you keep the doors open .
since i never sleep anyone in the garage i don't worry about it
NS, thanks for the furnace mod idea. I also don't use the garage for people. When using the furnace, I agree there is a very low danger, but with the non-vented Wave heaters there is. That was what I had in mind. The instructions say to leave a window open. I would rather just crack a window open and keep the heat inside; and with a O sensor, I can do that without worry.
WW
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:31 AM   #6
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NS, thanks for the furnace mod idea. I also don't use the garage for people. When using the furnace, I agree there is a very low danger, but with the non-vented Wave heaters there is. That was what I had in mind. The instructions say to leave a window open. I would rather just crack a window open and keep the heat inside; and with a O sensor, I can do that without worry.
WW
with those non vented wave heaters i would also ad a co alarm . i don't trust them even when they are set up right you will get combustion gases in the unit . your better off with an electric heater . but if you got to use one be very careful . there's a reason why they tell you to leave a window open . an oxygen sensor may not be good enough a carbon monoxide alarm will be better only need about 10ppm to start causing problems
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:56 AM   #7
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with those non vented wave heaters i would also ad a co alarm . i don't trust them even when they are set up right you will get combustion gases in the unit . your better off with an electric heater . but if you got to use one be very careful . there's a reason why they tell you to leave a window open . an oxygen sensor may not be good enough a carbon monoxide alarm will be better only need about 10ppm to start causing problems
Found this letter from Camco concerning the wave heater:

Dan Teague
International Sales Manager

Camco Manufacturing Inc.
121 Landmark Dr. Greensboro, NC 27409
Tel: 800.334.2004 Ext. 151
eMail | www | facebook | YouTube

(1) Are the Wave heaters comparable to other unvented heaters with regard to producing CO?
A.Yes. As long as adequate ventilation is provided, their CO production will be notably less than traditional, open-flame heaters.

(2) Is it suitable for use at night in the RV while humans are sleeping anywhere in the coach?
A.Yes. We use the term "sleep area" to encompass couches, convert-a-beds, and other such areas that a person may sleep outside of a traditional bedroom.
We do not recommend sleeping adjacent to the heater or with it in a bedroom. Within the direct vicinity of the heater, there is a localized increase in CO and a decrease in oxygen content. It is necessary to allow this to dissipate into the volume of air within the room and exchange it through ventilation. Typically, a [closed] bedroom does not provide sufficient volume of air for safe heater operation.

(3) Must/should the ventilation be 50% from the very bottom of the coach, with the other 50% at the very top (skylight vent) as many have advised, or can oppose windows be opened equally?
A.Our recommendation for ventilation is in the Air Supply section of the owner's manual. It states:
This heater consumes air oxygen from the room in which it is installed. To assure complete combustion, an adequate fresh-air supply to the room is necessary. It is good practice to have at least two openings, one high and one low. The room must have a total of at least 24 square inches free-air opening (i.e. an opening of 4" x 6"=24 square inches).
Provide additional ventilation of at least 2 square inches for every 1,000 BTUs per hour of input for any additional fuel burning appliances used at the same time.

It is the best practice to provide a low and a high opening. But in cases where this is not possible, cross-draft ventilation may be used as long as the heater is in the vicinity of the cross-draft. The most common form of this would be to open a window on opposing walls and place the heater in line with the windows.

(4) Where is the best place to locate the two Kidde CO monitors I have for my RV as far as height in the RV, and area of the coach to place them?
A.Place one in the sleeping area and the other one near the heater, but not so close that it reads the false concentrations. The ideal height is the sleeping height. To avoid damage or tampering by pets and children, it is acceptable to place it chest high.
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Old 10-28-2015, 11:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by WolfWhistle View Post
Found this letter from Camco concerning the wave heater:

Dan Teague
International Sales Manager

Camco Manufacturing Inc.
121 Landmark Dr. Greensboro, NC 27409
Tel: 800.334.2004 Ext. 151
eMail | www | facebook | YouTube

(1) Are the Wave heaters comparable to other unvented heaters with regard to producing CO?
A.Yes. As long as adequate ventilation is provided, their CO production will be notably less than traditional, open-flame heaters.

(2) Is it suitable for use at night in the RV while humans are sleeping anywhere in the coach?
A.Yes. We use the term "sleep area" to encompass couches, convert-a-beds, and other such areas that a person may sleep outside of a traditional bedroom.
We do not recommend sleeping adjacent to the heater or with it in a bedroom. Within the direct vicinity of the heater, there is a localized increase in CO and a decrease in oxygen content. It is necessary to allow this to dissipate into the volume of air within the room and exchange it through ventilation. Typically, a [closed] bedroom does not provide sufficient volume of air for safe heater operation.

(3) Must/should the ventilation be 50% from the very bottom of the coach, with the other 50% at the very top (skylight vent) as many have advised, or can oppose windows be opened equally?
A.Our recommendation for ventilation is in the Air Supply section of the owner's manual. It states:
This heater consumes air oxygen from the room in which it is installed. To assure complete combustion, an adequate fresh-air supply to the room is necessary. It is good practice to have at least two openings, one high and one low. The room must have a total of at least 24 square inches free-air opening (i.e. an opening of 4" x 6"=24 square inches).
Provide additional ventilation of at least 2 square inches for every 1,000 BTUs per hour of input for any additional fuel burning appliances used at the same time.

It is the best practice to provide a low and a high opening. But in cases where this is not possible, cross-draft ventilation may be used as long as the heater is in the vicinity of the cross-draft. The most common form of this would be to open a window on opposing walls and place the heater in line with the windows.

(4) Where is the best place to locate the two Kidde CO monitors I have for my RV as far as height in the RV, and area of the coach to place them?
A.Place one in the sleeping area and the other one near the heater, but not so close that it reads the false concentrations. The ideal height is the sleeping height. To avoid damage or tampering by pets and children, it is acceptable to place it chest high.
This shows that the heaters are dangerous .not to be used without GOOD ventilation . the heater in the units set up the way we have them now will heat the whole unit without adding extra ventilation . just need to keep the garage door open if you want that heated also .
i have no doubt that these heaters work well and when used properly will not pose any danger . but you'll never find one in my unit . i don't trust them . they are set to run at a certain elevation . if you go up to the mountains anywhere over 4000 ft the combustion will change less oxyegn in the air unit burns rich putting more co into the camper then at sea level
I'm sure if you look into it they are not to be used at all over 6500' 6 months of my time is spent at or above those elevations

If i needed more heat i would buy and install another furnace in my unit
where all combustion and exhaust are taken from outside and only good clean air is heated inside . jmho
one more thing i would never use them when sleeping if i did have one .
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