2015 Stealth 2313 water heater problem

[2oldfolks]

I have a problem with my water heater. Gas works fine. No heat on electric. Before everybody says it's the element, there isn't any power to the heater.

The switch inside the water heater is on. I pulled to switch, no power to the switch.

The breaker (see side question) is on and I can measure 120v out of the breaker.

The switch on the inside panel (for various items like water pump, fuel station pump, the electric water heater, and gas water heater) is on and lit. The wires leading to the inside switch are 12v. So I assume there is a relay somewhere I haven't found yet.

I also haven't found exactly where the connection is made to the water heater. I thought I may have to remove the water heater in order to see that.

any help would be appreciated. Any body have a trailer schematic?

as a side question... I found that when I turned of the 20 amp. breaker labeled "hot water heater" the air conditioner went off. The breaker labeled "Air conditioner" is a 15 amp breaker. Does that seem backwards?

For all I know the water heater was never connected by the factory.

Thanks

[wmtire]

We have seen a lot of times that the water heater itself is not even plugged into an outlet.




You may have to remove a false panel, unscrew a fake hinge, go thru a cabinet, or other to access the backside of the water heater. Once you do access it, the first thing to do is to find the electrical cord for the water heater and see if it's even plugged into an outlet. (or connected to an electrical circuit)

On many RV's (not all though), it will require access to the backside of the water heater to get to the water heater bypass valves for winterization....... so it's a good idea to know what you must do to access from the inside of the RV anyway.

I am assuming you have a Suburban water heater as you indicated there is a switch (inside) the heater, but think you mean on the face of the heater. If this is correct and you have another 'inside the RV' switch for the electric side of your heater..... yes there is a relay. I just posted a file for this type of Suburban the other day in a separate thread. Let me see if I can find it. I think the relay part number is 232948, which I have written on a pad still in front of my computer.

And yes, it does seem your breakers are labeled wrong. My RV has a 20 amp for the air conditioner and a 15 amp for the water heater circuit. Mine is very similar to this google search pic.

[2oldfolks]

I did remove the false panel for the water heater. WOW! Mine is nothing like the wide open space of the picture you showed. (I'll send a picture when I get home). Mine barely has any room to stick my arm in there. I didn't see an outlet but will look deeper into the abyss. May have move/remove furnace ducting to be able to see. Very tightly packed!


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[wmtire]

It could be wired into a junction box direct, instead of an outlet. If you will look at the first pic, you can see where the electrical cord is coming from on the side of the water heater. If there is a way to access/see your water heater, you should be able to trace wiring or cords coming from there and see where it goes...as well as what's at the end of the wires/romex/cord.

If it's a cord with a male plug on it, then it's obvious it has to be plugged into an outlet, if it's not already.

[2oldfolks]

By the way.... Do you know where the relay might be located?


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[TURBS]

Just out of curiosity. ....
How are you attempting to turn the electric side on?

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded, 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "2 nights"

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by 2oldfolks

By the way.... Do you know where the relay might be located?


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I highly doubt that is the problem, but will answer the question for future, as it's good to know. From what I've seen, it's most likely in a junction box on the side of the heater, basically where the cord is coming from. Let me see if I can find that schematic again.

EDIT:

Part #58, appears to be in the electrical junction box (#47).



Figures 4 (12 volt side of relay) and 5 (120 volt side of relay) on page 7 of this pdf will show you how the 12 volt inside switches to the propane and electrical are wired and the relay in the junction box.

http://www.riversidetrailer.com/Manu...r%20Heater.pdf

EDIT: I believe I was able copy the schematics from the pdf above.

[2oldfolks]

Originally Posted by TURBS

Just out of curiosity. ....
How are you attempting to turn the electric side on?

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded, 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "2 nights"

As it appears to never have worked my procedure could be wrong....


(Circuit breaker is on, water is on, water heater tank is full)
1) connect to shore power.
2) turn on switch inside the water heater.
3) turn on the panel switch.
4) wait for hot water.
5) .... Keep waiting as it never heats
6) turn on gas to heat water.

End of procedure.


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[TURBS]

Originally Posted by 2oldfolks

As it appears to never have worked my procedure could be wrong....


(Circuit breaker is on, water is on, water heater tank is full)
1) connect to shore power.
2) turn on switch inside the water heater.
3) turn on the panel switch.
4) wait for hot water.
5) .... Keep waiting as it never heats
6) turn on gas to heat water.

End of procedure.


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So you have a "inside the coach on/off" electric switch and a "inside the wh compartment on/off" electric switch.
Both must be on in order for the "electric" side to work.
Which it sounds like your doing.
Btw in the future the "inside the coach" electric switch is the only one you need to turn on and off, leave the outer always on.

Now if I read correctly you've checked power @ both switches?

Also just the other day a guy on here said his on/off switch was mislabeled "on" was actually "off" .



TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded, 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "2 nights"

[2oldfolks]

I don't actually turn on/off the switch inside the water heater. I just leave it on. I just felt if I left it out them people would say "you need to turn on the switch at the water heater"

Wanted to be clear that I have done all these things.


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[wmtire]

My money is still on that it's not plugged in. Especially if it's as hard as you say to access the rear of it, if it wasn't plugged in at the factory, the dealers guy may not have had success or bothered with it.

[2oldfolks]

Here's my access to my water heater thru the panel hole I have



Now I've removed the entire breaker panel to see a little better. At least I can see some of the wires!



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[wmtire]

I see your dilemma. I believe that's your 12 volt junction box you're looking at. What you are looking for (the 120 volt junction box) is also on the other side of the heater.

Hey, look at that pretty hot water line shutoff valve in the top pic. I am assuming you have some more valves behind the flexible ductwork at the bottom and to the right of.

This is where it wold be good to have an inspection camera/borescope.

[2oldfolks]

After dinner I'll go back out and try to shove my arm back to that corner of the heater and see what I can feel.

I might go to harbor freight and get one of those inspection cameras or put a usb camera on a stick. 😄

At this point I think I hope it just not plugged in but then I'd have to find the outlet. 😳


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[2oldfolks]

Oh and yes!

There are two more valves behind the lower duct.


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[wmtire]

Originally Posted by 2oldfolks

Oh and yes!

There are two more valves behind the lower duct.


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Like stated previously, it's good to know how to access your three winterization valves should you need to use them.

[2oldfolks]

Ok I found the 120v cable going to the water heater. It IS hard wired.

But here's another wiring anomaly....
It is connected to a breaker labeled "GENERAL", whatever that means.

So then what's connected to the breaker labeled "water heater". Oh!! I know it's the rooftop air conditioner. But .... Then what's connected to the breaker labeled "air conditioner"? I know it must be "general". ????????

So of the 7 breakers I have..
MAIN is correct
CONVERTOR is correct
G.F.I. is correct
MICRO is correct
GENERAL is wrong
AIR CONDITIONER is wrong
WATER HEATER is wrong

Pretty good that's 54% on wiring the breaker panel. PLUS I found that they broke off their square drive screwdriver bit in the wire attachment screw head while using their power screwdriver.

Wires now attached to the correct breakers.

Sorry...... I got side tracked.
The problem still is I don't have any power to the water heater.

So I verified I have 12v leaving the panel switch into a blue wire.

I have 120v leaving a breaker with the cable going to an inaccessible junction box on the water heater.

I have continuity from the wire feeding the switch that is inside the outside door/cover of the water heater, all the way thru the heating element.

So I figure there are basically three things that may be wrong.

1) bad relay
2) bad 12v circuit. Either the positive 12v coming from the inside panel blue wire doesn't make it to the relay's cool OR the ground (0v) wire doesn't connect back to the battery's negative.
3) The 120v hot leg isn't connected to the relay or the relay's output isn't connected to the on/off switch's wire.

I haven't heard a "click" of a relay yet (will try to listen again tomorrow) so I am leaning towards a control problem rather than a power problem.

Stay tuned!!!!




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[wmtire]

Well Crud! I was hoping that it was going to be something simple.

As thorough as you sound, I still am searching for easy. The propane side is turned off, so the water is not hot inside the heater?

[2oldfolks]

The gas heater section has been off for weeks, the water heater is completely cool.

On the subject of the relay...
I assume the relay is a mechanical relay rather than a solid state relay? I say that because trailer and trailer equipment manufacturers seems to use the cheapest/lightest components available. If solid state, I obviously wouldn't be able hear it "click" when energizing/de-energizing.

Any ideas on it's type?


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[wmtire]

According to Google:

Using Suburban part # from my post # 2 gets this:

Suburban Water Heater Relay, 232948

Looking at the pic there, and using the Zettler # on the relay, get's this:

http://www.azettler.com/pdfs/az2280.pdf