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Old 06-29-2014, 01:53 PM   #1
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5th Wheel Pin Weights - Again (Sorry)

Hello All:

I just wanted to confirm whether or not I am on the right track with my thought process relative to pin weights.

My wife and I have been looking for sometime for a new 5th wheel to replace our previous 34’ fifth wheel.

We have been looking at Crusader 5th wheels and before we actually buy something, I wanted to verify (at least approximately) the weight limits of our truck and prospective 5th wheel.

Our truck is a 2012 Ford F-350 4x4 with 3.55 Axle ratio. The Mfg sticker inside the door panel states that the GVWR of the truck is 11,500#. The Tire and Loading Recommendation sticker states that passengers and cargo should not exceed 3,235#.

Following are the estimates that I have used to try to determine what our hitch weight should be.

Total Available weight – per tire sticker 3,235
Estimate for Driver, passenger and puppy -350
Estimate for 5th wheel hitch (not purchased yet) -200
Estimate for misc cargo “stuff” -700

Estimated dry pin weight 1,985

I realize that the only way to know if this is correct for certain is to go to a cat scale and weigh the truck, but I don’t have a cat scale close to the house, and wanted to check to be sure that I am on the right track first.

IF the above is correct, then the Crusader 5th wheel models that we could purchase (of the many that we have looked at) would be the 325 RES at a dry hitch weight (per the Mfg site which, of course, may not be correct) of 1715#, the 315RST at 1953# and the 294RST at 1290#.

If I use the 20% of the 5th wheel’s GVWR to estimate pin weight, as suggested by many forum members in other posts, then the 325RES pin weight would be 2735# and the 294RLT pin weight would be 2282#. Both of these would exceed the estimates that I have calculated above.

So, I need help to end my confusion in this matter. Any and all thoughts and opinions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dave
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:22 PM   #2
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You have a decent thought process, but where are you getting 700lbs of stuff from? Make use of the cargo capacity the trailer has and carry that stuff there then put that payload weight towards getting what you want.
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:30 PM   #3
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The 700 Lbs of "stuff" was only a SWAG (Scientific Wild-A%% Guess), to represent some of the clothes and other camping items that we might bring along on a one or two month trip. I know that if I load that 700Lbs in the basement storage that it is not a 1:1 addition to the pin weight, but have no idea how much effect the set. 700# of stuff loaded into the basement might add to the pin weight.

If the effect on the pin weight is going to be negligible, then I might have a high enough pin weight to actually think about different Crusader units, or even a Sanibel 3050 (2498# set pin weight).

Thanks for the response.

Dave
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:39 PM   #4
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The only way to do this is to actually load your truck as you think you will be towing (spare gas, chains, full tank of gas, whatever, your family, then throw 150 pounds of sand (or the weight of what hitch you plan to use); and take it to a scale.

Subtract that amount from the GVWR and divide that by 0.2

Say you weigh it and it is 8000 pounds.

(11,500 - 8000)/0.2 = 3,500/0.2 = 17,500 pound trailer max

I understand the 3.55 rear 4x4 is a turbo diesel; is that right?

If so, your maximum trailer will depend on your tow rating which varies by body style.

http://dcd96xmek71bc.cloudfront.net/...ide_lo_res.pdf
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:45 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsandScarlett View Post
The 700 Lbs of "stuff" was only a SWAG (Scientific Wild-A%% Guess), to represent some of the clothes and other camping items that we might bring along on a one or two month trip. I know that if I load that 700Lbs in the basement storage that it is not a 1:1 addition to the pin weight, but have no idea how much effect the set. 700# of stuff loaded into the basement might add to the pin weight.

If the effect on the pin weight is going to be negligible, then I might have a high enough pin weight to actually think about different Crusader units, or even a Sanibel 3050 (2498# set pin weight).

Thanks for the response.

Dave
Remember that you can NOT use the dry pin weight as "the true" pin load after you load your camper AND pin weight varies by floorplan.

A 12,000 pound "dry" camper can have wildly different "dry" pin weights depending on kitchen and slide locations. Loaded; the pin weights can again vary wildly due to how and where your storage is located. 5th wheels are notoriously "pin heavy" due to the front pass through storage bay.
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Old 06-29-2014, 03:53 PM   #6
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Thanks for the responses. Yes, the truck is a turbo diesel.

I understand that the dry pin weight posted on the Crusader site is suspect, but until I can actually purchase the unit, that estimate is all that I have to go on. I don't think that the dealer has a scale at his place. One thing that I don't want to do is to overshoot the pin weight so much that I have to trade my truck for a dually, which would kill the budget !!

We probably should have purchased a dually instead of the SRW. Oh, well…

Dave
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsandScarlett View Post
Thanks for the responses. Yes, the truck is a turbo diesel.

I understand that the dry pin weight posted on the Crusader site is suspect, but until I can actually purchase the unit, that estimate is all that I have to go on. I don't think that the dealer has a scale at his place. One thing that I don't want to do is to overshoot the pin weight so much that I have to trade my truck for a dually, which would kill the budget !!

We probably should have purchased a dually instead of the SRW. Oh, well…

Dave
You don't have to buy one to find out how big a camper you can buy.
Just follow the procedure I outlined and you should be happy with the result.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:47 PM   #8
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What you're looking at sounds fairly similar to my 5er. This thread may interest you.

So, I weighed the show today.

One thing I didn't mention is that FR specs my pin weight at 2,302 and I found 2,580 actual loaded pin weight. I'm 744lbs over the yellow sticker so I found a 1:2.68 ratio meaning for every 2.68 pounds in the trailer one pound went to the hitch. All of that weight is in front of the axles.

Is the FR spec pin weight correct? Don't know. But I found I'm loaded 278lbs over spec and I'm good with that.
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Old 06-29-2014, 04:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKnight View Post
What you're looking at sounds fairly similar to my 5er. This thread may interest you.

So, I weighed the show today.

One thing I didn't mention is that FR specs my pin weight at 2,302 and I found 2,580 actual loaded pin weight. I'm 744lbs over the yellow sticker so I found a 1:2.68 ratio meaning for every 2.68 pounds in the trailer one pound went to the hitch. All of that weight is in front of the axles.

Is the FR spec pin weight correct? Don't know. But I found I'm loaded 278lbs over spec and I'm good with that.
The brochure pin weight is the pin weight for the unmodified "as drafted by the design engineers" unit. There are changes to the drawings made during production that change the brochure numbers and any options ordered by the dealer (or purchaser) also increase the "out the door weight" (Yellow Sticker).

Anything YOU or your dealer ADD after it leaves the factory ALSO changes those numbers (upwards).
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Old 06-29-2014, 10:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsandScarlett View Post
Thanks for the responses. Yes, the truck is a turbo diesel.

I understand that the dry pin weight posted on the Crusader site is suspect, but until I can actually purchase the unit, that estimate is all that I have to go on. I don't think that the dealer has a scale at his place. One thing that I don't want to do is to overshoot the pin weight so much that I have to trade my truck for a dually, which would kill the budget !!

We probably should have purchased a dually instead of the SRW. Oh, well…

Dave

You can usually best guess you're actual loaded pin weight by taking the dry weights and determine the pin weight percentage and then extrapolating that to wet weights. Check out my estimator at towingplanner.com.

I have a couple of tools there that should help you get a handle on things. Good luck!
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