Axle Broke, Bearings Fried

dvansteenburg · 07-09-2012, 02:31 PM

I have a 2011 Tracer Executive 3150 BHD, and while coming home from camp, my rear axle cracked, and the wheel bearings fried (not sure which order). However, the dealer doing the axle replacement noticed that the original axles are stamped for 4400lbs GVWR, but the trailer is stamped (on the side) for over 9000lbs GVWR. If I am doing my math right, does this mean that the trailer has a "real" GVWR of 8800lbs? How does a weight distrubition hitch affect this? Since they are going to have to replace the axle, should I insist that they install a 5000lbs axle (or at least 4600lbs or 4700lbs) axle instead "original" 4400lbs axle?

Dave_Monica · 07-09-2012, 02:33 PM

You're forgetting about the tongue weight. Usually axle weight ratings plus dry tongue weight equals the camper's GVWR.

Dave

dvansteenburg · 07-09-2012, 02:44 PM

Thanks, that makes sense, in which case the twin 4400lbs axle would work.

**Herk7769** · 07-09-2012, 02:46 PM

Just to be fair, when was the last time you weighed your camper?

TURBS · 07-09-2012, 02:48 PM

In comparison my 5er has 6k axles and the gvwr is 12o32
my pin weight 1872
12032-1872 = actual weight on axles.

dvansteenburg · 07-09-2012, 02:59 PM

We weighed going down on the 4th, more on a whim than anything, and we came in at 8940lbs. Since we dumped before we left, we had about the similar weight coming back.

Dave_Monica · 07-09-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvansteenburg

We weighed going down on the 4th, more on a whim than anything, and we came in at 8940lbs. Since we dumped before we left, we had about the similar weight coming back.

That would be axle weight or total camper weight?

Dave

Edit: FWIW...our camper has 4000 lb axles and a dry pin weight of 1077 lbs for a GVWR of 9077 lbs.

dvansteenburg · 07-09-2012, 03:11 PM

TV&TT weight minus TV front axle weight.

**Herk7769** · 07-09-2012, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvansteenburg

TV&TT weight minus TV front axle weight.

How does that give you a trailer weight?

Trailer weight is found by weighing the truck loaded just as you camp (front and rear axles), then weigh the truck and camper connected WITHOUT the WD bars connected (front and rear truck axles plus the camper's axles).

By subtracting the disconnected truck weight from the combined weight you will find the camper's weight and can determine if your truck's rear axle rating has been exceeded; actual tongue weight (front axle plus rear axle loaded minus front axle plus rear axle UN-loaded); and actual camper axle load.

Weigh the combination again WITH the WD bars connected to determine if the truck's GVWR and front axle rating or the camper's axles have been exceeded.

3 weighs on the scale are required to get all useful information. The first weigh costs about 10 bucks and the reweighs cost a buck a piece if done within 24 hours at most scales.

Dave_Monica · 07-09-2012, 03:26 PM

What does the camper's sticker indicate for GVWR. PTM's site doesn't list camper GVWR...lists UVW and CCC. For your camper it shows UVW of 6995 and CCC of 2755 for a total of 9710 lbs.

Dave

SaskCampers · 07-09-2012, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

How does that give you a trailer weight?

Trailer weight is found by weighing the truck loaded just as you camp (front and rear axles), then weigh the truck and camper connected WITHOUT the WD bars connected (front and rear truck axles plus the camper's axles).

By subtracting the disconnected truck weight from the combined weight you will find the camper's weight and can determine if your truck's rear axle rating has been exceeded; actual tongue weight (front axle plus rear axle loaded minus front axle plus rear axle UN-loaded); and actual camper axle load.

Weigh the combination again WITH the WD bars connected to determine if the truck's GVWR and front axle rating or the camper's axles have been exceeded.

3 weighs on the scale are required to get all useful information. The first weigh costs about 10 bucks and the reweighs cost a buck a piece if done within 24 hours at most scales.

Why not just drop the trailers tongue jack on the scale and take the weight then pull it ahead disconnect and weigh the axles. Add the 2 and call it a day for getting the trailer weight. Of course all your other weights are required to set the WDH.

**KyDan** · 07-09-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

Just to be fair, when was the last time you weighed your camper?

MY question is when was the last time you had your bearings checked/greased?
Bearings fail mainly due to lack of lubrication rather
than (slight) overloading.

Do not assume a new trailer has proper lubrication in the bearings.
I've read on various groups of people with new trailers finding little
or no grease in one or more hubs. The trailer maker assumes the axle
maker greased the hubs. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

My 2¢

OldCoot · 07-09-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyDan

MY question is when was the last time you had your bearings checked/greased?
Bearings fail mainly due to lack of lubrication rather
than (slight) overloading.

Do not assume a new trailer has proper lubrication in the bearings.
I've read on various groups of people with new trailers finding little
or no grease in one or more hubs. The trailer maker assumes the axle
maker greased the hubs. Sometimes it doesn't happen.

My 2¢

Boy Howdy to that, when I put shocks on my new 12 Flagstaff with less than 500 miles on it, when I took the drums off, there couldn't have been over a teaspoon of grease in each hub for both brgs. Took over 2 tubes of grease to fill them when I put them back together.

SpringerPop · 07-09-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunnnc

Boy Howdy to that, when I put shocks on my new 12 Flagstaff with less than 500 miles on it, when I took the drums off, there couldn't have been over a teaspoon of grease in each hub for both brgs. Took over 2 tubes of grease to fill them when I put them back together.

Having the hubs full of grease isn't necessary in a travel trailer like it is in a boat trailer.

What's really important is having the bearings, themselves, fully packed with grease. A little extra in there doesn't hurt unless you get too much and it forces itself past the grease seals onto the brakes. But it's not really necessary.

The quality of the grease is very important.

Frequency of maintenance is a big factor, too.

Lastly, the quality of the bearings, themselves, enters into the equation.

But "hubs full" isn't a requirement with travel trailers, and under the right conditions *could* cause problems.

Pop

OldCoot · 07-09-2012, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpringerPop

Having the hubs full of grease isn't necessary in a travel trailer like it is in a boat trailer.

What's really important is having the bearings, themselves, fully packed with grease. A little extra in there doesn't hurt unless you get too much and it forces itself past the grease seals onto the brakes. But it's not really necessary.

The quality of the grease is very important.

Frequency of maintenance is a big factor, too.

Lastly, the quality of the bearings, themselves, enters into the equation.

But "hubs full" isn't a requirement with travel trailers, and under the right conditions *could* cause problems.

Pop

Agree wholeheartedly Pop, but I've been packing wheel brgs since 1954 and have never had a problem blowing or pushing grease out the rear seal and onto the brakes. I feel it is better to have the whole hub cavity full rather that just a teaspoon of grease on two brgs which was how the factory shipped it.

SpringerPop · 07-09-2012, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dunnnc

Agree wholeheartedly Pop, but I've been packing wheel brgs since 1954 and have never had a problem blowing or pushing grease out the rear seal and onto the brakes. I feel it is better to have the whole hub cavity full rather that just a teaspoon of grease on two brgs which was how the factory shipped it.

You've got seven years on me in the wheel-bearing-packing department.

Even though I search out and specifically use double-lipped seals, I've had grease get into the brake shoes on the rare occasion, so I'm a bit conservative unless using EZ-Lube axles or Bearing Buddys.

And I couldn't agree more, too much is preferred to too little.

It's a little bit like the temperature of porridge:

"Just right" is best!

Pop

**KyDan** · 07-10-2012, 07:13 AM

I've been greasing bearings a long time as well.

Back in the "old days" wheel bearing grease was stiff and stringy and
soap based and you literally hand packed the bearings.
Many times I've sat with a palm full of sticky grease while I massaged
the cone part of the bearing to get the grease to completely fill the
gaps around each roller.

Now grease is lithium and much thinner but it doesn't melt with higher
temps. The last time I rebuilt my trailer hubs I put in new double lip
seals and new bearings. I then re-installed the hubs and pumped in
lithium grease thru the "eazy lube" grease fitting all the time slowly
turning the hub. When grease finally came out around the end I stopped
and put on the grease caps.
My hubs are completely full of the correct grease and I won't do much
more to them for a few years until it's time to rebuild the brakes.
It's darn near impossible to remove a hub to do brake work without getting
dirt in the old bearings so I'll do the whole thing over at that time.

I know they are full of grease and I'm not going to pump any more in there
because now the seals have a few thousand miles on them and I don't
want to risk forcing grease out the seal into the brake drum.

My 2¢

**Herk7769** · 07-10-2012, 07:30 AM

I am a member of the "Full Hub" crowd.

The EZ Lube spindles are made to be used full.

Some mechanics just yank the hubs without regard for the seals when they check the brakes during the annual inspection.

They then jamb the hubs back on without checking the seals for wear or scratches when they pulled the hub off are more likely the culprit for grease blow out. Then they get to blame you for their incompetence.

Len & Cheri · 07-10-2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herk7769

Trailer weight is found by weighing the truck loaded just as you camp (front and rear axles), then weigh the truck and camper connected WITHOUT the WD bars connected (front and rear truck axles plus the camper's axles).

Should you incude the WD in this weight or is that in the RV weight?

**Herk7769** · 07-10-2012, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Len & Cheri

Should you incude the WD in this weight or is that in the RV weight?

The hitch should be installed as it is "payload" for the truck. In the WD calculations everything forward of the ball is truck payload; everything aft of the ball is camper payload - WHEN CONNECTED.

Camper payload must be under it's GVWR disconnected (tongue/pin included).

Truck payload must be under it's GVWR when connected (tongue/pin weight included.

The only time you do not "double count" is when figuring "Combined Weight" when the tongue weight is only used once.

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