china bombs

[wmcclay]

Well after 2 warranty tires and a third tire going bad, went down today and replaced all 5 with bf Goodrich commercial ta's in 235/85/r16. I think it pulls better and rides better. NO MORE china bombs for me. By the way I pulled off tow max tires and they were NOT over loaded or over sped. I hope my tire problems are over as we are leaving for 45 days next week.


Wayne and Donna

[Batts-toy]

Have a great trip and I too hope your tire worries are over. When I purchased my TT after only one camping outing I went over and replaced all 5 tires and rims with load range 'E' Maxxis, the original was 'C'.

[DDC]

China does not make tires, you should look for the manufacturers code and name it, there are not to many manufacturers so you will find that your tires are made by a multinational skirting the system and moving to which ever country it can get away with cheap manufacturing process.

[Tiggerdad]

I disagree that China does not make tires.

OP-Good choice on tires. I have over 25,000 miles on my BFG Commercial T/A's. They were removed from my previous rig and placed on my new rig as part of my deal.

[BarryD0706]

Hmmm.... My 2013 Sanibel came with Goodyear Marathons and I've been very happy with them. Mine was made In March 2012. I think you should have stayed with ST tires but wish you luck with your experiment.

[mister_d]

I have over 15k miles on ours and not a single problem. We take frequent trips during the season and store the trailer indoors at the fairgrounds (dirt floor) during the winter. I check the air pressure before every trip and use Aerospace 303 (?) after each trip's wash down.

I really hope the new set works out for you but blaming a blowout on their country of origin is a silly. There are far too many variables .. blaming China is the easy way out.

[wmcclay]

I pull my rv approx. 20-30,000 miles a year. I do not drive over 60 miles an hour and have weighed it several times to make sure its not overloaded. Tire pressures are checked every other day. On my 06 Montana I lost 8 tires in 4 years 7 due to internal tire failures. (Friend is an accident investigator) in 2010 I put a set of bf Goodrich commercial tires on it, only 1 flat due to a screw. Bought a Sanibel 3500 in Sept of 2012. Lost two tires within a year both from internal tire failures. Installed new bf Goodrich commercial tires last week, form my experience china bombs are junk.
All you hear about on the news about china is how bad their products are, they killed their own people with tainted infant milk. Ship products here that have to be removed from the store shelves that are tainted or made improperly.
Do you really think they care about quality control on their tires. I am really not china bashing, I believe there is a better product out there for our rvs.
Mfgs do not put on better tires on because of the cost, its whatever meets spec.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
Its bad enough out there on our highways, I do not want to worry about tires.

Wayne and Donna

[J_KHawthorne]

I traveled over 13,000 miles from Missouri through the Canadian Rockies and through the Arizona desert with my original "Road Rider" 15" load range 'D' tires with only 2 slow rim leaks, that were easily fixed. They were showing a little wear and were over 2 years old, and had see many miles over gravel roads. (My wife insists that I fly-fish in odd places... or so I let her think)

I replaced them this year with 15" Gladiator load range "E" tires as recommended by my local 2nd generation tire dealer in rural Missouri who is is still in business with no bullet wounds after many years.

I trust him, as do multitudes of my well-armed and unforgiving neighbors. (If that means nothing to you, you don't know rural Missouri!)

Anyway, I asked him about "China Bombs" and he laughed in my face. Didn't really say much; just laughed.

I needed more than that and pressed him on the subject.

After a long and detailed explanation of why "ST" tires were mostly made in China, with the remainder made elsewhere in Asia (he thought it was mostly a liability issue rather than cost; as most RVers tend to overload, under-inflate and press the speed limits and then want to sue the ***** off any tire manufacturer for any damage related to the same.)

When I inquired about 'LT' tires over 'ST', he simply refused to consider it as it was a (quote) "silly thing to try on a trailer", and referred me to his competition.

All he handles now are Gladiator ST tires. (Made in China by a company headquartered in Singapore)

Why? Because of a process of elimination; he hasn't had a complaint or problem with them, and he really hates complaints or problems out here. He did recommend I upgrade to load range 'E' and I did so... for $98.00 per tire.

This is how things go here in Missouri... the "Show Me" State. For whatever it's worth.

[Tireman9]

Gee I wonder about all those "Indiana Bombs" (refrigerator failures and fires).
Could it be lousy Indiana workers or could it be that since most RV refrigerators are made in Indiana one would expect most failures of refrigerators to come from Indiana.

Correlation is not proof of causation. 98% of people in prison have eaten Micky-D fries so eating those fries makes you a criminal if we follow your logic ??????

[dcheatwood]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Gee I wonder about all those "Indiana Bombs" (refrigerator failures and fires).
Could it be lousy Indiana workers or could it be that since most RV refrigerators are made in Indiana one would expect most failures of refrigerators to come from Indiana.

Correlation is not proof of causation. 98% of people in prison have eaten Micky-D fries so eating those fries makes you a criminal if we follow your logic ??????

Man, while it is humorous, your french fry analogy is way off. Tires from china, stamped "made in china" are blowing up on trailers. I've had three blowouts and one tread separation. Now if Micky d employees were found to be throwing the fries at customers, there might be some correlation. Lol. But the blame would be on Micky D's employee screening and not the fries.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by dcheatwood

Man, while it is humorous, your french fry analogy is way off. Tires from china, stamped "made in china" are blowing up on trailers. I've had three blowouts and one tread separation. Now if Micky d employees were found to be throwing the fries at customers, there might be some correlation. Lol. But the blame would be on Micky D's employee screening and not the fries.

Sorry I was just pointing out the problem of assuming correlation means causation.


If essentially almost all tires placed on TT come from one country why would you expect that tires that fail are from a broad number of different countries?

What countries are on your list of making ST type tires that are being used in significant volumes on modern multi axle TT? China and ?? and ?? can you name 5? 3?

I have tested and evaluated tires made in China and can attest that they pass all the US requirements. This is on multiple type and sizes.

Assuming that the zip code somehow affects all tires made there ignores the problem inherent with the TT application of under-sized tires for the service they are being used for.

Blowouts are basically Run Low Flex failures. Any tire run with insufficient air for the load and speed will fail and it doesn't matter what color the building the tires were made in was painted. The facts are that over 50% of TT have one or more tire under-inflated and overloaded.

I think I can safely say the reason TT have so many tire failures is that too many in the RV industry cuts too many corners when it comes to selecting tire size and type. They ignore proper engineering practices when selecting tire size and Load Range. I believe the root cause of the tire failure problem is actually situated in Elkhart Ind. Not China.

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Sorry I was just pointing out the problem of assuming correlation means causation.


If essentially almost all tires placed on TT come from one country why would you expect that tires that fail are from a broad number of different countries?

What countries are on your list of making ST type tires that are being used in significant volumes on modern multi axle TT? China and ?? and ?? can you name 5? 3?

I have tested and evaluated tires made in China and can attest that they pass all the US requirements. This is on multiple type and sizes.

Assuming that the zip code somehow affects all tires made there ignores the problem inherent with the TT application of under-sized tires for the service they are being used for.

Blowouts are basically Run Low Flex failures. Any tire run with insufficient air for the load and speed will fail and it doesn't matter what color the building the tires were made in was painted. The facts are that over 50% of TT have one or more tire under-inflated and overloaded.

I think I can safely say the reason TT have so many tire failures is that too many in the RV industry cuts too many corners when it comes to selecting tire size and type. They ignore proper engineering practices when selecting tire size and Load Range. I believe the root cause of the tire failure problem is actually situated in Elkhart Ind. Not China.

Thank You, That was very well put and helps explains the main reason for failures. What gets me is that the tires OEM that came with the unit where really at the limit almost unloaded. When my tire blew, who really knows why.(6000 miles) But I couldn't find a dealer for Trail Express except for Coach net. When I called them they wanted me to send them the BLOWN TIRE back to them for warranty. That's unreasonable in my opinion. Some other people had better luck then me under warranty. Give me a local supplier anytime. I tried to buy a USA made ST but they are very hard to fine. The GM from Blacks Tire in NC said that if I could fine a USA made tire that I wanted they would refund my money and install the USA made for free. I stuck with my Marathons that I purchased that were made over seas. He stated that they are the same standards as when they were built in the NC plant when they made ST's.....

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Sorry I was just pointing out the problem of assuming correlation means causation. If essentially almost all tires placed on TT come from one country why would you expect that tires that fail are from a broad number of different countries? What countries are on your list of making ST type tires that are being used in significant volumes on modern multi axle TT? China and ?? and ?? can you name 5? 3? I have tested and evaluated tires made in China and can attest that they pass all the US requirements. This is on multiple type and sizes. Assuming that the zip code somehow affects all tires made there ignores the problem inherent with the TT application of under-sized tires for the service they are being used for. Blowouts are basically Run Low Flex failures. Any tire run with insufficient air for the load and speed will fail and it doesn't matter what color the building the tires were made in was painted. The facts are that over 50% of TT have one or more tire under-inflated and overloaded. I think I can safely say the reason TT have so many tire failures is that too many in the RV industry cuts too many corners when it comes to selecting tire size and type. They ignore proper engineering practices when selecting tire size and Load Range. I believe the root cause of the tire failure problem is actually situated in Elkhart Ind. Not China.

Given the hazards of overloading mentioned here, I am wondering it there are any issues with underloading other than wear on the center of the tire? My 5er came with LR E 16inch wheels, which are like 700 lbs underloaded per tire. I have reduced pressure from the max 80 psi a bit but am reluctant to reduce the PSI all the way to the spec. From your experience is there anything to know about this situation.?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by gljurczyk

Thank You, That was very well put and helps explains the main reason for failures. What gets me is that the tires OEM that came with the unit where really at the limit almost unloaded. When my tire blew, who really knows why.(6000 miles) But I couldn't find a dealer for Trail Express except for Coach net. When I called them they wanted me to send them the BLOWN TIRE back to them for warranty. That's unreasonable in my opinion. Some other people had better luck then me under warranty. Give me a local supplier anytime. I tried to buy a USA made ST but they are very hard to fine. The GM from Blacks Tire in NC said that if I could fine a USA made tire that I wanted they would refund my money and install the USA made for free. I stuck with my Marathons that I purchased that were made over seas. He stated that they are the same standards as when they were built in the NC plant when they made ST's.....

Thanks for th info about Coach-Net. I have to wonder if the requirement to return all parts that fail while under warranty to them for inspection is spelled out in the contract or if the people selling Coach-net coverage even inform prospective customers of the requirement.
Strange situation for a supposedly nation wide company to require the customer to pay for a part return. Wonder if they would expect you to ship a dead battery back if it wouldn't hold a charge after they gave it a jump?.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by garbonz

Given the hazards of overloading mentioned here, I am wondering it there are any issues with underloading other than wear on the center of the tire? My 5er came with LR E 16inch wheels, which are like 700 lbs underloaded per tire. I have reduced pressure from the max 80 psi a bit but am reluctant to reduce the PSI all the way to the spec. From your experience is there anything to know about this situation.?

I would not worry about under-loading your TT tire enough to cause major problems. Yes center MAY occur but since most TT tires need to be replaced for age before they wear out I would not consider that a serious problem, especially if you avoid tire failure.

Re your "700 pounds underloaded" tires. Are you sure? Do you have the actual loads on each individual tire when the TT is fully loaded? It is not unusual for axles to be un balanced side to side by 5% or MORE. PLUS to have axle to axle loading to be unbalanced by 5% or MORE. So if all you know is the total load on all 4 tires you should assume 45/55 split per axle PLUS 45/55 side to side until you get the facts and data to prove otherwise.
Example Total load on axles 8240# so assume the heavy axle has 55% or 4532#. Then assume the heavy side of that axle has 55% so you potentially have one tire loaded to 2493# NOT 2060# if you assume perfect balance. Since you inflate all tires on an axle to the inflation needed for the heaviest loaded tire I would assume the inflation needed for the above example is what is needed to support 2493# NOT 2060#. I have written on load unbalance in my blog post of Dec 10, 2012.

RE lowering inflation DON"T DO IT
There is sound engineering principles for inflating tires on multi-axle trailers to the inflation on the side of your tires associated with the tire max load.
This gets very technical but it has to do with the fact that the tires are being dragged around every turn or corner (not just when backing into a campground but that is the extreme case) which can increase the internal forces that are trying to tear the tire apart by up to 24% more than would be seen on the same tire if it was on a Motorhome or TV. The best thing you can do to lower but not eliminate this internal destructive force is to increase inflation. This lowers the "slip angle" which in turn lowers the "inter-ply shear" force that is trying to tear the tire apart.
You need to realize that car tires are specified with a 10 to 20% unde-rload by the car companies while RV companies may inly give a theoretical 5% to 10% which many times can be an actual overload to only a 1% underload is actual application.

Summary of info for trailer owners here.

[Windywest]

As I've mentioned on a couple other tire related threads, I changed my Load Range C tires to Load Range E (225 75R15) . I was told with my estimated trailer weight, I could run them at 65 PSI without issue, even though the max PSI on the tire is 80 psi. If running under the maximum inflation stamped on the side of the tire is an issue, than this chart IMO is problematic. http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf

If you look at the 225/75R15 tires, it says you can run the LR D at 55 psi for 2270 lbs although the max pressure is 65 psi. I've seen charts for LR E that are similar, and says you can reduce pressure for a lighter load. I have a friend who has LR G on his unit, he replaced his LR E. He runs them at 80 psi even though the max is 110 psi, no problems in the past 3 years and he puts on a lot of miles. This sure is a confusing issue.

[Windjammin]

I will be replacing the tires on my trailer in the near future. It came with 225 x 75R 15 Load Range C tires. At the maximum 50 psi this gives only a 2150 pound capacity per tire. I would like to replace them with load range D or E Maxxis tires but my rims are probably only rated for 65 psi. The 65 psi limits the capacity to 2540 pounds which is plenty and will even give me a 25% safety factor even with a fully loaded trailer.

My question is will a load range E tire give me anything for the additional cost over the load range D tire given it will only be inflated to the 65 psi limit of the rims?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Windywest

As I've mentioned on a couple other tire related threads, I changed my Load Range C tires to Load Range E (225 75R15) . I was told with my estimated trailer weight, I could run them at 65 PSI without issue, even though the max PSI on the tire is 80 psi. If running under the maximum inflation stamped on the side of the tire is an issue, than this chart IMO is problematic. http://www.goodyearrvtires.com/pdfs/rv_inflation.pdf

If you look at the 225/75R15 tires, it says you can run the LR D at 55 psi for 2270 lbs although the max pressure is 65 psi. I've seen charts for LR E that are similar, and says you can reduce pressure for a lighter load. I have a friend who has LR G on his unit, he replaced his LR E. He runs them at 80 psi even though the max is 110 psi, no problems in the past 3 years and he puts on a lot of miles. This sure is a confusing issue.

You didn't identify your tires as ST type but I think that is what you are talking about.
Lets turn around the way you are reading the chart.
For any given size the chart is intended to provide the MINIMUM inflation needed to carry a specific load.

I have previously posted on why running ST tires at the inflation molded on the tire is a good idea.
You need to confirm your actual individual tire loading and not use an estimate.
Unless you know the actual load on your friends TT I would not use his experience with his TBR tire and try and apply it to yours. The fact that he has not had a failure is no more proof that the application is OK for the life of his tires than someone having a failure on a specific tire proof that all similar size/brand tires will also fail.


Most people jump up one Load Range and adjust the inflation accordingly. You went two Load range so running 65 MAY work but if you have a tire failure I suggest you remember that running less than the tire sidewall pressure (or the max for the rim which ever is lower) was your decision.

[garbonz]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I would not worry about under-loading your TT tire enough to cause major problems. Yes center MAY occur but since most TT tires need to be replaced for age before they wear out I would not consider that a serious problem, especially if you avoid tire failure. Re your "700 pounds underloaded" tires. Are you sure? Do you have the actual loads on each individual tire when the TT is fully loaded? It is not unusual for axles to be un balanced side to side by 5% or MORE. PLUS to have axle to axle loading to be unbalanced by 5% or MORE. So if all you know is the total load on all 4 tires you should assume 45/55 split per axle PLUS 45/55 side to side until you get the facts and data to prove otherwise. Example Total load on axles 8240# so assume the heavy axle has 55% or 4532#. Then assume the heavy side of that axle has 55% so you potentially have one tire loaded to 2493# NOT 2060# if you assume perfect balance. Since you inflate all tires on an axle to the inflation needed for the heaviest loaded tire I would assume the inflation needed for the above example is what is needed to support 2493# NOT 2060#. I have written on load unbalance in my blog post of Dec 10, 2012. RE lowering inflation DON"T DO IT There is sound engineering principles for inflating tires on multi-axle trailers to the inflation on the side of your tires associated with the tire max load. This gets very technical but it has to do with the fact that the tires are being dragged around every turn or corner (not just when backing into a campground but that is the extreme case) which can increase the internal forces that are trying to tear the tire apart by up to 24% more than would be seen on the same tire if it was on a Motorhome or TV. The best thing you can do to lower but not eliminate this internal destructive force is to increase inflation. This lowers the "slip angle" which in turn lowers the "inter-ply shear" force that is trying to tear the tire apart. You need to realize that car tires are specified with a 10 to 20% unde-rload by the car companies while RV companies may inly give a theoretical 5% to 10% which many times can be an actual overload to only a 1% underload is actual application. Summary of info for trailer owners here.

I have weighed the rig and know the overall weight on the axles, but not each individual tire. Your point on the side force during turns IS the piece that is important.

My rig weight loaded is 7060 on the axles which is WAY less than the tire spec for the 16 inch LR E 80 psi tires (Akuret), that it came with. I am running 75 PSI now, and my only problem is that the trailer seems to bounce a lot, rearranging the contents pretty remarkably. Not sure there is anything I can do about that, without running a much lower pressure, or doing major suspension work.

[OldCoot]

Originally Posted by garbonz

I have weighed the rig and know the overall weight on the axles, but not each individual tire. Your point on the side force during turns IS the piece that is important.

My rig weight loaded is 7060 on the axles which is WAY less than the tire spec for the 16 inch LR E 80 psi tires (Akuret), that it came with. I am running 75 PSI now, and my only problem is that the trailer seems to bounce a lot, rearranging the contents pretty remarkably. Not sure there is anything I can do about that, without running a much lower pressure, or doing major suspension work.

Shocks on the trailer is a much easier solution. Solves the problem of trailer bouncing and transferring that motion to the tow vehicle. We travel with the coffee maker (sans carafe) and ice maker on the rear counter and they never move. (rear kitchen)