Crusader Inadequate AC or poor insulation - Page 3

transmission_doctor · 09-07-2018, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailzscott

Valleyduo,

The ceiling on mine did not have the same problem as the walls.

According to Primetime, the coach should have R52 insulation value. I have trouble believing that.

R52 would be impossible in a coach, that is about 10 inches of foam insulation. I could believe maybe an R5 , that would be about 1 inch of foam, much more likely.

Comanchecreek · 09-07-2018, 09:13 AM

We have a 315 RST with just the one AC unit. We use the foil insulating blanket in the sunny windows and have made insulation for inside the cupboards that are on the slides. We can basically get colder than what is comfortable on the hottest of days. Granted we don't RV in the Arizona summer so may not be enough in that situation. Generally 80 to 90 degrees with higher humidity and the AC keeps up fine. Have no interest in a second AC given our situation. Think if you are in more of an extreme heat area the second air is a good idea.

nailzscott · 09-07-2018, 10:08 AM

Transmission Dr: I just found the insulation informant on on Primetme’s site for my rv. They state R58 in the roof (with 5” trusses) and floors but R11 in the walls and end walls. So there is the problem, since the heat is migrating through the walls.
Comamchecreek: we are working on doing your type of fix with some Reflectix that we just bought. I wasn’t sure on what to do inside the cupboard but we’ll have to do something there too - and probably the wardrobe.

Comanchecreek · 09-07-2018, 10:49 AM

I think you'll find that the biggest air leaks from the outside are the slide seals. Not sure what you can do about them.

S.kimbruce · 09-07-2018, 12:59 PM

Just took various temps with a phone app and got similar results in 297RKS. Doesnt sound promising

transmission_doctor · 09-07-2018, 02:12 PM

Prime Time web site states 5 inch trusses with R14 fiberglass in the roof, and R11 in the walls, that is reasonable and likely much better insulation than most RV's. R58 is impossible in 5 inches. The best insulation in the marketplace is foam which runs about R5 per inch. Your coach is well insulated, if you cannot cool it then the A/C is either undersized or it is not working correctly. Suggest you have a good A/C tech check it to make sure it is working correctly. If it is working up to spec then have a knowledgeable tech do a heat gain calculation to see if it is sized correctly.

tohara · 09-07-2018, 09:30 PM

2 things I just did on my trailer living in texas.
#1. went to lowes and bought rolls of reflextic insulation. cut a pieces 1/4" oversize so to fit snug in the windows. it's the same stuff car and truck sunshades are made of.
#2. have a mach one a/c unit, took white cover off, and then used the foil a/c tape to seal the metal plenum. then cut the reflextic, in pieces the size of the top, sides and back. sprayed Loctite adhesive on the plenum and reflextic and stuck it down them foil taped the edges. also used foam tube to cover & insulate the large suction tube.( just like they do on your house a/c)
just got back from vacation at Atlanta State park by Texarkana, mid 90's and very humid. a/c took less time to get initial cold air going and the camper stayed at 78 degrees and the a/c cycled.
before in that kind of weather the a/c would run constant and never get colder than 84 degrees
before and after pics attached

nailzscott · 09-09-2018, 03:51 PM

Comanchecreek: what type of insulation did you use inside the cupboard?

Also, I don't think ours has leaks at the slide seals. These slides are double sealed - one that is a "bulb" seal that wraps around the inner and outer wall, and then another that seals as the outside wiper. My highest temperatures come from the windows first, the inside cupboard walls next, the sky lights next, and then the walls on the sunny side.

As I mentioned, I have reflectix for the windows and reflectix pillows for the skylights. I have not installed these, nor has it been hot enough yet to test; but I still want to figure out some kind of insulation for the wardrobe and cupboard walls.

Comanchecreek · 09-10-2018, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailzscott

Comanchecreek: what type of insulation did you use inside the cupboard?

Also, I don't think ours has leaks at the slide seals. These slides are double sealed - one that is a "bulb" seal that wraps around the inner and outer wall, and then another that seals as the outside wiper. My highest temperatures come from the windows first, the inside cupboard walls next, the sky lights next, and then the walls on the sunny side.

As I mentioned, I have reflectix for the windows and reflectix pillows for the skylights. I have not installed these, nor has it been hot enough yet to test; but I still want to figure out some kind of insulation for the wardrobe and cupboard walls.

My wife sewed Reflextic to an insulating fabric and created a box that covers the side walls, the top, and the back wall. She measured each cabinet so each is individually cut to fit, then used industrial grade Velcro stips to hold it in place. Haven't been anywhere to use it yet so will have to update later.
We also use the Reflextic in the windows, and that does more than anything I believe. It is rigid enough to stay in place behind the blinds. Makes a huge difference during the hottest part of the day and you can leave it there when your gone, unlike trying to shade with your awning.

Tiggerdad · 09-10-2018, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailzscott

The oddity is - when the electronic thermostat is set to Auto (meaning it should fully shut down when it's has maintained the cool temperature), it can go into a mode where the fan shuts down for 1 to 2 seconds - but the compressor is still running. That should never happen. It can go through this short-cycling process every couple of minutes. I can change the Dometic thermostat from Auto to High or Low Fan, and it stops doing that; which is why I think that short-cycling issue is the thermostat.

That issue, mine does the same thing, has been discussed on this and another form I frequent. Many claim than the fan stopping and then restarting again is not uncommon and other than that the AC does as expected. I will add that mine will not do it as frequently. Maybe 1/2 hour or so (?). I have become accustomed to it and do not always notice.

Tiggerdad · 09-10-2018, 07:27 AM

nailzscott. I cut and stapled the inside of our closet, located in the nose and some of the cupboards with the Reflectix.

Comanchecreek · 09-10-2018, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggerdad

That issue, mine does the same thing, has been discussed on this and another form I frequent. Many claim than the fan stopping and then restarting again is not uncommon and other than that the AC does as expected. I will add that mine will not do it as frequently. Maybe 1/2 hour or so (?). I have become accustomed to it and do not always notice.

I usually set the thermostat fan setting on high or low instead of auto to keep the fan from cycling as you talk about. It can't be good for the motor to keep turning on and off. The thing is, you have to remember to put it back on auto when you go back to the furnace as the fan in the AC will run when the furnace kicks on. Have seen others suggest this is to mimic a ceiling fan which most RV Man's don't install anymore.

sk734 · 11-27-2018, 09:04 PM

If you stat is 5 degrees over set temp the fan automatically jumps to hi fan. You need that or you may get ice forming on you ac coil that could drip on your ceiling. I cut a cold air dump into my ceiling to get all the cold air off the coil. Solves the problem. Little more noise but cools the unit much better. I also added 2nd air in bedroom. Rig now cools well when over 100+. Someone told me Crusader dropped quiet cool system as they are quiet but do not cool well.

DebChuck · 08-05-2019, 05:27 PM

We have a 2018 Crusader 370 BHQ and very disappointed with our ac unit. We keep it on continuously and still during the day the temp climbs. We set it to cool to 70-72 and the temp with rise to 78 on really hot days. We leave all blinds closed and have a vent cover for the bedroom. Our next step is to get a second unit for the bedroom. 1 just doesn’t keep up and we do have that extreme thermal package!

wshelton1 · 08-05-2019, 07:05 PM

The only fix is to add the second A/C. If you have a 50 amp coach the bedroom vent is prewired.

DebChuck · 08-05-2019, 07:13 PM

May I ask where you got your second unit installed? We're in Canada and had quotes a lot higher than that for the second unit.

Hclarkx · 08-05-2019, 11:11 PM

Our ceiling fan cooled almost as well as the A/C (moving air feels good when you are sweating). Air coming out of the A/C ducts wasn't all that cool. I found the ceiling ducts to be just channels in the foam with maybe 3/4" of foam between the top of the duct and the 3/16" plywood roof. I abandoned all ceiling ducts and removed a panel in the A/C grille to let the A/C blow a massive column of cold air straight down. Not an elegant solution, but it helped the cooling massively. Did the same thing with the propane space heater. Abandoned all of the under floor ducts (some were not delivering much air) and ran them out through the adjacent basement walls into the living area. Toasty warm now and cut space heater run time by 2/3.

sk734 · 08-06-2019, 06:27 AM

I did the same thing with my AC unit. Not sure If I follow what you did with your heat ducts. Our cold air return is under 1st step to go upstairs. This is also where the furnace is located. Did you just disconnect heat ducts from the furnace and let it blow? If not where did you rout them?

nailzscott · 08-11-2019, 03:28 PM

Recently I went camping in the exact same spot as a year ago when I was very disappointed in the AC capability. This year though, I had purchased a 4'x8' roll of Reflectix (BP48010) from Amazon (around $25).

I cut the Reflectix to size for the rear and back side slide windows - which were all facing the sun at various times of the day. Although I don't like coverings on the windows all the time, I did find that we had no issue this year with staying cool. Outside temps ranged 80 to 85 during the day, but the camper stated at 72.

So I am still very disappointed in a new - supposedly well insulated RV that won't keep cool without a second AC or the actions have I stated above. Forest River & Prime Time are selling false expectations and should either include the 2nd AC or tell customers that truth that their RV will not stay adequately cool unless other actions are taken - like creating a dungeon atmosphere in your RV with shades and sun blocks.

Hclarkx · 08-12-2019, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sk734

I did the same thing with my AC unit. Not sure If I follow what you did with your heat ducts. Our cold air return is under 1st step to go upstairs. This is also where the furnace is located. Did you just disconnect heat ducts from the furnace and let it blow? If not where did you rout them?

Our furnace is opposite the stairs so has a return grille in the bulkhead opposite the stairs. Between that inlet grille and the stairs is a recess that originally contained an "LED electric fireplace." We mostly dry camp so the fireplace went into storage. The furnace plenum is nearly behind the rear panel of that recess. I cut off the two mylar ducts that were going through the floor and removed the one going to the upstairs hallway (outlet in the bathroom is sufficient for the upstairs). I then fashioned three mylar ducts from about 3' long to 5' long and connected them with foil duct tape to three 10" long pieces of plastic drain pipe that protrude through that rear panel where the fireplace was. The duct up to the bathroom floor above remains. The warm air from these three outlets shoots back toward the rear kitchen and distributes nicely about the living room and kitchen.

Let me know if some photos would be helpful.

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