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Old 09-09-2011, 04:39 PM   #1
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Eternabond Construction Questions??

Hi Gang

Have a few questions regarding Enternabond construction.

In the description of the eternabond contruction it says "This advanced framing technique will never rot, warp, deteriorate, mold, or mildew" but what about
"The fifth layer of the sidewall is a plywood panel that is bonded between the fiberglass and the aluminum and foam wall assembly and

"On top of the EGS, a layer of plywood decorative board is laminated to the aluminum and foam wall assembly providing a residential look that is extremely resistant to damage and punctures"

Wont these rot if there a water leek?

also, how is the roof constructed on the Crusader?

Lastly, are the aluminum studs every 16 inches?

and how does this aluminum and EGS hold up in the cold weather? dont they conduct moisture?

Thank You

Just researching a potential future purchase.

Gary
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:34 PM   #2
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Best bet is to ask PT from their website....or maybe RV Guy will chime in. I do know that I've used mine several times in the cold and haven't noticed any condensation issues.
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Old 09-09-2011, 08:42 PM   #3
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Hi, Gary:

Good questions. Hope these answers can help.

Yes, if there is water intrusion your substrate could be affected. Fortunately, if this were to happen your aluminum structure will not be affected in the same way as a wood structure which is one of the major advantages to aluminum and ETERNABOND. The other main advantage to aluminum is the weight savings.

The roof is EPDM rubber with a 12 year warranty. It is laid on 3/8" decking that is fully capable of allowing you to walk on it for service and maintenance. The rafters are 5" truss-style on 16" centers. Crusader has R-14 fiberglass insulation.

Crusader uses a laminated floor and sidewall structure that derives its strength from the bonding process. The stud location can vary depending on each floorplan. The doors, windows, and various cut-outs are framed in aluminum for structural integrity when installing the component.

Aluminum holds up extremely well during cold weather but it can conduct moisture just like your door frames, window frames, glass windows, and even wood studs. EVERY RV is vulnerable to condensation in colder temperatures if not properly ventilated.

Although, I'm not exactly certain what you're weighing the ETERNABOND features against, I will also say that a major benefit to ETERNABOND is that the solid foam insulation will never "settle" in your sidewall over time ensuring a much better insulated fifth wheel. The laminated structure will also be quieter.

If you'd like to talk with a sales person or send us email inquiries, please feel free to do so at Prime Time Manufacturing, Manufacturers of travel trailers and fifth wheels

Best of luck with your research.

PTM
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:10 PM   #4
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Thanks. Very impressed that RV Guy responded with such a through response.

Quick follow-up.

So if there was water damage that needed to be repaired, for example a wall or portion of a wall that needed to be replaced, would the repair go back to the factory to be vacume bonded? or would laun and fiberglass outer layer be some how bonded to the aluminum frame at the dealer?

Thanks

Gary
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:05 PM   #5
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No dealer could repair a delam issue back to factory standards. Every one I heard of had to go back to the factory.
Before the Crusaders hit the market, the rumor was that they were going to use a composite instead of the luan, thus eliminating the delam issue completely. I was very disappointed to find out that their walls are made much the same as everyone else. I'm glad I didn't wait for them to come out, as we are more than pleased with our Flagstaff.
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Old 09-10-2011, 12:17 AM   #6
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I first walked through a LaCrosse trailer in March of 2010 and was very impressed. By July We had decided to purchase a new trailer since our current trailer had been nothing but problems for us. Our main priority was quality of build. We looked at about every brand you can think of. We visited numerous dealer lots and attended an RV show in OKC. We kept going back to the LaCrosse. We made our purchase last November and we are very satisfied with our choice. Prime Time's great customer service was actually a surprise that has just put the icing on the cake.
During that time we were looking at trailers I never heard any claims from anyone about Prime Time being made of composite materials. Also in the two or so years that Prime Time has been building trailers, I've never heard of anyone complaing about any kind of delamination. How many other brands can claim that over the last two years?
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Old 09-10-2011, 08:03 AM   #7
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Delamination is caused by moisture infiltration. If Prime Time is using the same construction techniques, they will inevitably have delam issues as well.
It is good that you like your camper, but I have looked at the Crusaders, and saw nothing special. Just another brand name to sell.
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:01 AM   #8
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Gary - that question has a multitude of answers depending on the situation. We have authorized a variety of repair scenarios including bringing units back to our place. It depends on exactly what we are dealing with and the capabilities of the local dealer.

Delam has become a "catch all" for lots of issues that are sidewall related and there are many "experts" out there who are only marginally educated on the different issues.

This miracle composite that supposedly exists that won't break down yet provide a lasting, solid structure for a laminated process is a bunch of sales hype IMO. We've looked at all of them, used some of them, and have had problems with composite materials both at Prime Time and my former employer. The obvious benefit of not deteriorating when it gets wet sounds great to all of us but what doesn't get talked about is the lack of tensile strength of the material, off-gassing that occurs when the glue reacts to the composite under extreme heat, excessive differences in expansion coefficients between the composite and fiberglass during extreme temperature variations, and other more technical issues that go beyond glueing some wood together in your garage. All of these real world issues HAVE resulted in sidewall defects in our industry and that's a FACT you won't hear discussed at your local dealership nor are most customers well-versed enough in the specifics to discuss it beyond calling it a "delam".

What I will tell you is this: Prime Time does not have a revolutionary innovation in the field of lamination. However, we have laminated MORE areas of our unit than most of our competitors (floors, end walls, slide-out end walls, slide-out roofs) which we believe provides for a better built, better insulated, lighter RV.

We also have processes in place that go beyond what ANY towable manufacturer offers to give us the best opportunity to build a defect free, long-lasting RV. Some of these processes are:

Dye infused glue that allows for a visual inspection of complete coverage.
High temp resistant glue that will withstand temps of 210 degrees.
A lamination building that is environmentally maintained with misters for proper moisture content in the air.
Multiple "destruction/pull" tests daily to ensure bonding.
Moisture content testing daily on lauan to make sure it's not too dry.
We apply putty tape under rails and moldings to prevent water intrusion in places other manufacturers only cap seal with silicone.
We air pressure test EVERY unit we build to identify potential leaks.
EVERY unit goes thru a secondary PDI at our facility.

Bottom line is we don't build a perfect RV but we do a lot of things that you typically won't find with our competitors that provide for a better built unit day-in and day-out. Then, when we do have a problem I think this board speaks well of our commitment to customer service.

PTM
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Old 09-10-2011, 09:25 AM   #9
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RV Guy

Thank You for taking the time to explain your construction process.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:54 AM   #10
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I am so impressed every time I read a Primetime post that RV Guy has chimed in on that I am half-way convinced that I need to buy a PT .
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