Eternabond Construction Questions??

[gpscoqn]

Hi Gang

Have a few questions regarding Enternabond construction.

In the description of the eternabond contruction it says "This advanced framing technique will never rot, warp, deteriorate, mold, or mildew" but what about
"The fifth layer of the sidewall is a plywood panel that is bonded between the fiberglass and the aluminum and foam wall assembly and

"On top of the EGS, a layer of plywood decorative board is laminated to the aluminum and foam wall assembly providing a residential look that is extremely resistant to damage and punctures"

Wont these rot if there a water leek?

also, how is the roof constructed on the Crusader?

Lastly, are the aluminum studs every 16 inches?

and how does this aluminum and EGS hold up in the cold weather? dont they conduct moisture?

Thank You

Just researching a potential future purchase.

Gary

[M109Rrider]

Best bet is to ask PT from their website....or maybe RV Guy will chime in. I do know that I've used mine several times in the cold and haven't noticed any condensation issues.

[RV Guy]

Hi, Gary:

Good questions. Hope these answers can help.

Yes, if there is water intrusion your substrate could be affected. Fortunately, if this were to happen your aluminum structure will not be affected in the same way as a wood structure which is one of the major advantages to aluminum and ETERNABOND. The other main advantage to aluminum is the weight savings.

The roof is EPDM rubber with a 12 year warranty. It is laid on 3/8" decking that is fully capable of allowing you to walk on it for service and maintenance. The rafters are 5" truss-style on 16" centers. Crusader has R-14 fiberglass insulation.

Crusader uses a laminated floor and sidewall structure that derives its strength from the bonding process. The stud location can vary depending on each floorplan. The doors, windows, and various cut-outs are framed in aluminum for structural integrity when installing the component.

Aluminum holds up extremely well during cold weather but it can conduct moisture just like your door frames, window frames, glass windows, and even wood studs. EVERY RV is vulnerable to condensation in colder temperatures if not properly ventilated.

Although, I'm not exactly certain what you're weighing the ETERNABOND features against, I will also say that a major benefit to ETERNABOND is that the solid foam insulation will never "settle" in your sidewall over time ensuring a much better insulated fifth wheel. The laminated structure will also be quieter.

If you'd like to talk with a sales person or send us email inquiries, please feel free to do so at Prime Time Manufacturing, Manufacturers of travel trailers and fifth wheels

Best of luck with your research.

PTM

[gpscoqn]

Thanks. Very impressed that RV Guy responded with such a through response.

Quick follow-up.

So if there was water damage that needed to be repaired, for example a wall or portion of a wall that needed to be replaced, would the repair go back to the factory to be vacume bonded? or would laun and fiberglass outer layer be some how bonded to the aluminum frame at the dealer?

Thanks

Gary

[crocus]

No dealer could repair a delam issue back to factory standards. Every one I heard of had to go back to the factory.
Before the Crusaders hit the market, the rumor was that they were going to use a composite instead of the luan, thus eliminating the delam issue completely. I was very disappointed to find out that their walls are made much the same as everyone else. I'm glad I didn't wait for them to come out, as we are more than pleased with our Flagstaff.

[grhodes50]

I first walked through a LaCrosse trailer in March of 2010 and was very impressed. By July We had decided to purchase a new trailer since our current trailer had been nothing but problems for us. Our main priority was quality of build. We looked at about every brand you can think of. We visited numerous dealer lots and attended an RV show in OKC. We kept going back to the LaCrosse. We made our purchase last November and we are very satisfied with our choice. Prime Time's great customer service was actually a surprise that has just put the icing on the cake.
During that time we were looking at trailers I never heard any claims from anyone about Prime Time being made of composite materials. Also in the two or so years that Prime Time has been building trailers, I've never heard of anyone complaing about any kind of delamination. How many other brands can claim that over the last two years?

[crocus]

Delamination is caused by moisture infiltration. If Prime Time is using the same construction techniques, they will inevitably have delam issues as well.
It is good that you like your camper, but I have looked at the Crusaders, and saw nothing special. Just another brand name to sell.

[RV Guy]

Gary - that question has a multitude of answers depending on the situation. We have authorized a variety of repair scenarios including bringing units back to our place. It depends on exactly what we are dealing with and the capabilities of the local dealer.

Delam has become a "catch all" for lots of issues that are sidewall related and there are many "experts" out there who are only marginally educated on the different issues.

This miracle composite that supposedly exists that won't break down yet provide a lasting, solid structure for a laminated process is a bunch of sales hype IMO. We've looked at all of them, used some of them, and have had problems with composite materials both at Prime Time and my former employer. The obvious benefit of not deteriorating when it gets wet sounds great to all of us but what doesn't get talked about is the lack of tensile strength of the material, off-gassing that occurs when the glue reacts to the composite under extreme heat, excessive differences in expansion coefficients between the composite and fiberglass during extreme temperature variations, and other more technical issues that go beyond glueing some wood together in your garage. All of these real world issues HAVE resulted in sidewall defects in our industry and that's a FACT you won't hear discussed at your local dealership nor are most customers well-versed enough in the specifics to discuss it beyond calling it a "delam".

What I will tell you is this: Prime Time does not have a revolutionary innovation in the field of lamination. However, we have laminated MORE areas of our unit than most of our competitors (floors, end walls, slide-out end walls, slide-out roofs) which we believe provides for a better built, better insulated, lighter RV.

We also have processes in place that go beyond what ANY towable manufacturer offers to give us the best opportunity to build a defect free, long-lasting RV. Some of these processes are:

Dye infused glue that allows for a visual inspection of complete coverage.
High temp resistant glue that will withstand temps of 210 degrees.
A lamination building that is environmentally maintained with misters for proper moisture content in the air.
Multiple "destruction/pull" tests daily to ensure bonding.
Moisture content testing daily on lauan to make sure it's not too dry.
We apply putty tape under rails and moldings to prevent water intrusion in places other manufacturers only cap seal with silicone.
We air pressure test EVERY unit we build to identify potential leaks.
EVERY unit goes thru a secondary PDI at our facility.

Bottom line is we don't build a perfect RV but we do a lot of things that you typically won't find with our competitors that provide for a better built unit day-in and day-out. Then, when we do have a problem I think this board speaks well of our commitment to customer service.

PTM

[gpscoqn]

RV Guy

Thank You for taking the time to explain your construction process.

[Triguy]

I am so impressed every time I read a Primetime post that RV Guy has chimed in on that I am half-way convinced that I need to buy a PT .

[grhodes50]

As I stated in my previous post, I was looking for a better quality built trailer when I purchased our LaCrosse. I am far too ignorant when it comes to the procedures and materials that go into building an RV to explain accurately and in detail why I feel Prime Time meets that definition.
I thank RV Guy for explaining how it is all done. You can tell by his post that Prime Time does do things differently. You can tell by the post on this forum by satisfied customers that it's working.
Prime Time's web site does explain some of their construction materials and procedures. There is some good info there if you take the time to read it all. I did before I made the decesion to purchase my LaCrosse.
http://primetimerv.com/

Triguy, come on over to the other side!

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by grhodes50

Triguy, come on over to the other side!

Ah, the temptation...

[KPAWK]

I concur with grhodes50, I also did extensive research on varying brands construction but kept going back to the Lacrosse.

[grayfox]

Originally Posted by Triguy

I am so impressed every time I read a Primetime post that RV Guy has chimed in on that I am half-way convinced that I need to buy a PT .

After spending 47 years in the building products industry selling wood products to all types of mfrs I've handled many delamination claims. In the big picture not so many. In my it experience it was mostly a glue line problem with the plywood.

The bottom line.... it will happen to someone at some point, it's a small percentage out of the millions of square feet sold.We only here about the bad wood never the GOOD STUFF. It's all about how the dealer and mfr. handle the claim

The bottom line again... buy from a REPUTABLE dealer representing an EXCELLENT mfr.

[Rustymax]

I am no by no means an expert in the construction practices utilized in the towable RV industry therefore I can only speak to what I have researched over this past year in my quest to find the best TT for the money. I want to preface this by stating that I a mechanical engineer, having many years of experience in diverse metal manufacturing industries and now closing out my engineering career working as consulting engineer for a global engineering firm. I write technical specifications for my clients that often utilize leading edge technologies and I am held personally responsible for technical evaluation of proposals for this specialized equipment being procured, often this equipment valued the millions of dollars. I do believe that I can somewhat adequately evaluate a company’s product for best engineering practices in design, materials of construction, fabrication techniques, assembly and equally important product their warranty. My TT research involved just about all of the different TT manufactures within a comparable size and price range and has revealed a vast difference in all of the aforementioned attributes. It quickly becomes oblivious to me that there are good TTs and not so good TTs in the market and each competing for there share of the market. Buyer beware.

I am convinced that Prime Time offers the best overall “value for the dollar” for a TT that meets my needs. Just as there are good and not so good TTs I’m sure that all would agree there are educated and not so educated TT shoppers and I don’t intend on making an expensive mistake. In support of this statement, My DW and I are actively talking with a local dealership to purchase a 30 ft LaCrosse this October, taking advantage the “Touring Edition” bonus. One must simply stop and consider that in a market that has many players and compunded by a weak economy, one must ask themselves; how is it that a new startup company is growing its product line when some TT manufactures are struggling to survive? I can only surmise that PT is doing something right and its being recognized by buyers other than me.

I would (and I am) recommending PT to my friends.

Regards

Rustymax

[frankm]

I do believe that I can somewhat adequately evaluate a company’s product for best engineering practices in design, materials of construction, fabrication techniques, assembly and equally important product their warranty. My TT research involved just about all of the different TT manufactures within a comparable size and price range and has revealed a vast difference in all of the aforementioned attributes.

How much time did you spend on PT manufacturing floor observing their fabrication process? And by evaluating best engineering practices do you mean sitting down with their engineering team and reviewing their work product?

PT undoubtedly makes a good product, and by the many accounts of members here PT customer service is pretty good.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I also think that dollar for dollar I got the best TT in my Rockwood 2702SS. So there, I said it!

[grayfox]

I'm with Rustymax. I'm currently negotiating with a dealer for a Crusader with the touring package. The local dealer has an excellent reputation as well as Prime Time...that's the combination I'm talking about.

As far as brands or manufactures, it all come down to personal preference.

[Rugged Brown]

I am no by no means an expert in the construction practices.... yada.... yada..... yada

It has been said and therefore it must be so.

I am therefore convinced that Flagstaff offers the best overall “value for the dollar” for a fifth wheel that meets my needs . I cannot comment on Customer Service because I have not had reason to contact them.


Nuff said

[grayfox]

Chevy or Ford, Sounds like a couple of kids in a sandbox. Lets have an adult conversation and learn something.

[Rugged Brown]

Originally Posted by grayfox

Chevy or Ford, Sounds like a couple of kids in a sandbox. Lets have an adult conversation and learn something.

Dodge