How accurate is the gvwr?

[coolzzy]

Reason I ask is I have a tracer air 250. According to my tires load rating, they can support 7k pounds. The axles however are 2800 pounds each. I've been googling and it seems as though dexter does not make a 2800 pound axle, only 3500 pound units. They have a disclaimer that mounting equipment, tires, and wheels will determine the actual load carrying capacity based off the lowest rated factor.

So my question is, what is that factor? Is it the aluminum wheels, Springs, or maybe just a huge safety margin on the tires? My yellow sticker says I have just 951 pounds of cargo capacity and that includes weight if propane. So after I subtract 267 pounds for water and 140 for my dual 6v batteries, I'm left with a little over 500 pounds for cargo.

I'm mentally weighing the tools, chairs, grill, food in the fridge, pots and pans, etc, and am at or over the gvwr of 6085 loaded up for camping. Could I jump to a higher weighted tire and get more capacity, or is it the structural frame of the trailer itself that will break if I add more weight/gear? The 255 model had substantially more cargo capacity and weighs similiar, which had me thinking axles were the limiting factor but if I truly have 3500 pound axles shouldn't I be good for 7k ish pounds gvwr?

[donanddona]

Grease me now or replace (pay) me later..

[TURBS]

Propane is "not" included in the uvw.

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "9 nights"

[coolzzy]

We've only had it out twice, but I plan on greasing the ez-lube zerks before my next trip this weekend or the next. Are you saying that by towing at the gvwr I'm going to have premature hub failure? Most of our camping is dry so I'll be carrying water allot.

[coolzzy]

Maybe it was battery weight that was included but one of the two was. If neither, then I'd be overweight with no supplies or camp gear on board which is kinda ubsurd for a trailer that can sleep 8..... Now if I had a realistic safety cushion up to 7k or even 6500 pounds I wouldn't sweat it.

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by coolzzy

Maybe it was battery weight that was included but one of the two was. If neither, then I'd be overweight with no supplies or camp gear on board which is kinda ubsurd for a trailer that can sleep 8..... Now if I had a realistic safety cushion up to 7k or even 6500 pounds I wouldn't sweat it.

Battery is also not included in uvw.

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "9 nights"

[TURBS]

Website contradicts your numbers by a bunch?


TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "9 nights"

[coolzzy]

Per primetimes website, the tracer air 255 had a CCC of 2582 pounds with a UVW of 5038 pounds. It also has higher exterior height and is shorter than the 250. Does that mean it has 4k pound axles?

[coolzzy]

Well I stopped by the trailer storage lot after work today, took a picture of the tag on my axles and it says rated capacity 2800. Dexter Axle part number 4330537 built in 9/15/14, so they do indeed manufacture these low weight rating axles. Makes me wonder how much heavier the 3500 pound axles are, or if I can upgrade without having to change my mounting hardware.

[coolzzy]

And despite what PrimeTime's website says my CCC is, the yellow sticker as weighed from the factory attached to my trailer is as follows:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2br7eyyz0...09.40.jpg?dl=0

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by coolzzy

And despite what PrimeTime's website says my CCC is, the yellow sticker as weighed from the factory attached to my trailer is as follows:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2br7eyyz0...09.40.jpg?dl=0

I'd contact prime time and double check.
Another member here bought a brand new Sabre with a grossly inaccurate sticker and they said they made a mistake.
I'm not sure if he got the new sticker yet or not.


TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "9 nights"

[Happy Vibe]

They do make mistakes, when I was trailer shopping (not an FR trailer) the yellow sticker had a weight much lower than the UVW on the web sight. The dealer called the factory and the sticker on the unit was wrong.
If the axles really are 2800 lbs then the CCC for his trailer could be correct. Going by the web-sight number it looks like it should have 3500 lbs axles.
What year is your trailer? I know the vibe 6500 line was made with 3500 lbs axles for a could of years then they put 4400 lbs. I am guessing because people complained about the low CCC on some of the models.

[Herk7769]

Never a good idea to post your VIN in an open forum.

According to your sticker, the GVWR of your camper is 5935 pounds with an available payload of 951 pounds of gear and water.

It does not matter if the axles or tires can support more, the frame or the wall construction may be what limits the total weight.

That being said, I would contact the MFR with your VIN and CONFIRM what the GVWR of your model is supposed to be and if radically different than your Yellow Sticker, request a new one.

You exceed the Yellow Sticker at your, (and who ever shares the road with you), peril.

[sugarjohnson]

Originally Posted by coolzzy

And despite what PrimeTime's website says my CCC is, the yellow sticker as weighed from the factory attached to my trailer is as follows:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p2br7eyyz0...09.40.jpg?dl=0

This is interesting because I am actually going through this right now with my 250 Air and had the same general concerns. I have actually written a letter to PT and Dexter regarding this. I posted my concerns here a while back.

When I had my new TT in for regular bearing greasing this spring my service manager pointed out the axle ratings as well as the fact that the 250 only has 10x1.5 brakes as well. He found both undersized for this size TT. Yes its an ultralight but still can be 6000k loaded. Kicker is he had a 2015 215 Air in the same day with 10x2.25 brakes.

There is no rhyme or reason to this. I am looking at it from a pure safety margin. I travel with my family and do some long trips and want the best equipment. I can deal with ultralight construction and in fact love my TT but please don't save money on axles and brakes. I plan to keep pursuing this up the line although honestly don't have much hope it will be fixed.

In terms of upgrading axles it is not a direct swap to the 3500 as the spring hangers will not line up. So we shall see.

[coolzzy]

I'll be interested to hear if anything comes of it. I towed mine 2 hours up through winding twisting mountain roads loaded for dry camping (full water tank) this weekend. I agree the brakes are also too small though. I'm 90% certain I was overloaded for my drive up there as it seems everything and the kitchen sink travel with my family of 5 when we camp. We've been doing it with numerous trailers for several years and have accumulated lots of camping gear and gadgets that really add up, filling every nook and cranny. The front basement storage is quite large, mine is mostly occupied with a three burner camp chef, zero gravity chairs, and life jackets.

[sugarjohnson]

We honestly pack as light as we can and never haul water. PT has been good to me and I'm on 2 Tracers now. Overall I have had no major issues and just small craftsmanship things that come with an Ultralight TT. We did almost 5000 miles last year. I am OCD with maintenance and taking care of my stuff so it just disappointments me that they would put the same size brakes on this as my utility trailer. If it works out great but otherwise I will switch out the hubs next year for larger brakes.

[ChiefGreedyOfficer]

Does some weight on tougue add to the overall cap? It should.

[sugarjohnson]

Originally Posted by ChiefGreedyOfficer

Does some weight on tougue add to the overall cap? It should.

According to Dexter TW is subtracted from UVW. Even so with a WD hitch you still transfer some of that weight back to the TT.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by ChiefGreedyOfficer

Does some weight on tougue add to the overall cap? It should.

When you say "cap" I am assuming you mean payload. If that is correct, the answer is no.

The GVWR of the trailer is the lowest weight rating of the "critical component" used to build the trailer and has nothing to do with TW; just total weight regardless of where carried or supported (wheels or tongue).

While it is remotely possible on your camper for the selected tires or the axle "to be that component", it is FAR more likely to be the frame; followed by wall construction and wall "openings".

Overloaded frames flex at every road bump causing frame cracks and cracks at the corners of the laminated side wall panel penetrations (slides, windows, and doors).

Higher GVWR rated campers not only have heavier axles and tires, but have heavier duty frames and contain more aluminum tubing in the "studding" and boxing of the laminated walls and ceilings.

Just upgrading your axles and tires will do nothing to change the payload available. If you need more, you need a different camper.

As to weight distribution hitches and the transferred weight, GVWR is determined with the WD hitch in its "unloaded" configuration (all camper wheels plus tongue weight). You must also weight again with the WD connected JUST TO MAKE SURE the axle and tire ratings are not exceeded with the redistributed tongue load.

If your camper is below its GVWR with the bars/chains unhooked, and exceeds the weight rating with enough WD to make your truck level, you have the wrong truck trying to carry that camper's tongue load.

[sugarjohnson]

Herk,


Well said and I agree. I will not run near my max weight and have set up my WD hitch and weighed in at a CAT scale. Like the OP I still have issues with axles rated right to max capacity of our unit along with the brilliant idea to put 10x1.5 brakes on this unit which I find just downright cheap.