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Old 02-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #31
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Nuts

I have sent you another photo of the proper lug bolt install made by the dealer on our Crusader...This is the install that will make me happy, the shorter Lug Nuts does not do it for me...Let me know if in fact having the other Wheel Lug Bolts installed, especially for a customer with all the problems I've had to date, please let me know. Check with your Sales Manager RS for his knowledge of our problems to date...I like the idea of new Lug Bolts...Please let me know, I want this to go away now..Thanks

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Originally Posted by RV Guy View Post
After reviewing your photo and our wheel installation with BOTH the axle supplier and the wheel supplier, the installation is correct. Let me explain:

1. In the trailer industry, the same hubs (and therefore the same lugs) are used for both Steel Wheels and Aluminum Wheels. So there's no chance these were "mixed up".

2. A minimum requirement before achieving proper torque is 10 revolutions of the nut. We exceed that requirement.

3. The standard lug nuts that come with the axle are quite a bit shorter in height than the lug nuts we use on Crusader. You can see the height difference in the picture below.

4. The wheel supplier feels that the long nuts we use are superior to the standard axle nuts because they provide maximum thread engagement by utilizing the entire stud.

5. Furthermore, they believe the longer nuts "seat" better on the Aluminum Wheel that they sell us which allows for proper torque to be maintained.

If you would like for us to send you some of the shorter axle nuts that come with the axles, we'd be happy to. I think we just throw them away.

Regarding the lost lug - that could be caused by a variety of things and definitely must be replaced ASAP at your dealer. We do not believe that the lug nut style was the cause, though.

Sorry for your inconvenience and the guys at the office have the same information.

PTM
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Old 02-17-2012, 09:03 PM   #32
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I'm just as if not more anal retentive as the next guy when it comes to ensuring my stuff is safe and works properly. If it were me I'd chalk it up as "$h!t happens and move on. If I broke a stud and didnt realize i had longer than normal lug nuts I'd probably feel the need to install longer studs too but I think the axle OEM and trailer builder gave a reasonable explanation.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:16 PM   #33
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Extended Trip

We purchased this unit for one reason and one reason alone, go to Alaska..If this thing has broken a stud off already just riding down an expressway, what the heck is going to do on the Alaskan Highway....not a good time to find out then and it will be out of warranty...Yep when it comes to me and my family, Yes I an really very, very anal and darn proud of it....With all that has gone wrong with this coach from Dec. 2011, we are running out of niceness...
Thanks for our opinion, kind of like belly buttons, everybody has one....
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #34
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Best of luck to you.
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:10 PM   #35
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Corrections Necessary

The information supplied by PrimeTime is incorrect...The nut that is installed on our Aluminum Wheel/Studs only have twelve threads, there are three showing at the top of the stud, that means there are only nine threads holding the wheel on the hub....HISPEC address's this condition and requires a minimum of eleven threads making contact with wheel hub stud...PrimeTime stated that they exceded the ten threads, that is certainly not correct.......




Quote:
Originally Posted by LKicklight View Post
I have sent you another photo of the proper lug bolt install made by the dealer on our Crusader...This is the install that will make me happy, the shorter Lug Nuts does not do it for me...Let me know if in fact having the other Wheel Lug Bolts installed, especially for a customer with all the problems I've had to date, please let me know. Check with your Sales Manager RS for his knowledge of our problems to date...I like the idea of new Lug Bolts...Please let me know, I want this to go away now..Thanks
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Old 02-18-2012, 01:47 AM   #36
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I'm a motor vehicle inspector in Canada.In order for me to pass the wheel stud/nut combination,there must be at least 1 complete thread showing beyond the last thread of the nut regardless of the nut length using a proper wheel nut(there are some nuts that the last thread is lower than the top of the nut).Broken studs are usually not a result of not enough threads engaged in the nut,it is usually caused by over tightening the nut.I have also seen broken studs due to the stud being defective-too soft of material.Usually when there is not enough stud engagement in the nut,the nut or stud will strip out.If I had the same concerns as you have with the safety aspect of the stud/nut combo and "want this to go away now",I would replace the studs myself or at the dealer if you are unable to do so.I would not curtail the use of my trailer while discussing this with the manufacturer over a small repair like this.

09grizzy1
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:36 AM   #37
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Let me give more detail then:

1) According to your dealer in a conversation 5 minutes ago, your brakes were being inspected at the dealership and THEY snapped off your lug when the nut seized on the stud during removal. As a matter of fact, they have the broken lug and seized nut in hand if you want to get it from them during your visit today.

2) They replaced your lug with a stock part they had and believe it was 1/8" longer than the lugs that were on the hub. They did not order or get a longer lug from Lippert for this particular unit. It was a stock part. The Lippert lugs are 1 1/8" long. Apparently, after market lugs are commonly 1 1/4" long to accomodate different types of aluminum wheels that might be desired.

3) In a follow-up conversation with Tredit (the wheel supplier) the nuts we use have 15 threads! 15! So if 3 are seen in the picture that means 12 are engaged. 12! 20% more than Lippert's minimum recommendation and 50% more than the 8 that is commonly used as a minimum in the after-market industry. Here's a link for verification of this common industry standard:

Wheel Tech - Wheel Lug Torquing

4) There are thousands of applications where the nuts are enclosed on the end rather than open like these thus preventing the lug from protruding thru the nut.

5) Finally a comment about the Hispec press release. You do realize that is a self-generated press release from someone wanting to sell wheels right? That is not an official Federal specification or standard. They are promoting that their wheels lie on the hub face flatter and allow for additional stud to show thru thus giving more thread engagement on their wheel. This is an advertisement!
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Old 02-18-2012, 09:52 AM   #38
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Lug Nuts/Studs

ET is a brand of Lug Nut sold here locally, they retail for $24.00 a set, they are an acorn type lug nut that will work in this application. A local tire and wheel dealership, Smyrna Tire and Wheel has them in stock. If PrimeTime will either purchase a set of these for me through Three Way Camper, then this problem for you, me and Three Way Camper will go away. Call Paxton Hamby, General Manager at Three Way Camper and authorize him to purchase these Nuts for me...I will install them myself and go pick them up.
All this has been docuemented and saved, lets see what the future will bring after we get some miles on the unit.
Thanks for yours an RS help...in this other matters with our Crusader 270 RET..
randy
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #39
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Lugs and Nuts

As you can see by the photograph I have posted, there are at least three threads showing thru the nut..this is after the wheel nuts have been torque to 95#...so what you're telling me is, if you were to inspect this when we come through Canada, it would not be legal?? So after looking at this photo, which nut is correct and would pass your inspection?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 09grizzly1 View Post
I'm a motor vehicle inspector in Canada.In order for me to pass the wheel stud/nut combination,there must be at least 1 complete thread showing beyond the last thread of the nut regardless of the nut length using a proper wheel nut(there are some nuts that the last thread is lower than the top of the nut).Broken studs are usually not a result of not enough threads engaged in the nut,it is usually caused by over tightening the nut.I have also seen broken studs due to the stud being defective-too soft of material.Usually when there is not enough stud engagement in the nut,the nut or stud will strip out.If I had the same concerns as you have with the safety aspect of the stud/nut combo and "want this to go away now",I would replace the studs myself or at the dealer if you are unable to do so.I would not curtail the use of my trailer while discussing this with the manufacturer over a small repair like this.

09grizzy1
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:52 AM   #40
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LKickinglight, I guess I'm a little confused now.

The pic you posted shows a lug bolt slightly longer than the others and with a lug nut that is much shorter than the others. Similar to the lug nuts in the pic that RV Guy posted.

Your original claim was that the lug bolts were either too short or defective....or both. Now you say that if PT will foot the bill for new lug nuts "the problem will go away."

Sorry about hijacking this thread KAB449. I posted it as a link in another thread trying to help southernsky with his bedroom heating problem.
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