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12-12-2011, 10:57 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Why does a simple project, never go easy? Lug Studs/Hub Issue
Yesterday, on my 2011 LaCrosse 318BHS, I was going to do a bearing/brake check.
First wheel, I try to take off.. One lugnut, ok.
Two, hmm... this doesn't seem to be going right... Lugnut starts coming off, but the entire stud is spinning with it... No good.
Three, same result.
Four, same result
Five, same result
Six, that one is ok..
Through a combination of wood blocks, prybars, and lots of patient swearing, I got the wheel off.
I get the hub off, and turn it drum side down, and four lug studs (wheel studs) fell out. No tapping, hammering, just fell onto the ground... The studs/nuts were not cross-threaded, nothing...
A little backstory, I had one lug on this wheel broken off. Primetime, sent me a new stud, no problem. I replaced it several months ago, no issue.
Now I know, some think I under/over-torqued. I have a recently calibrated Snap-On torque wrench that I use. Upon first check when I got it home after PDI, initial delivery, all the wheel lugs were very loose... Like 30-50 ft.lbs.. Whatever, crappy dealer, torqued, and moved on.. I thought the more recent broken lug stud was a result of this improper torque originally.
Well, fast forward to today... Here I am, going to Disney World in 3.5 weeks and only 2 studs on one hub that are somewhat firmly secured. I have contacted Primetime, but wanted to share here. I am hoping everyone will check their wheels/studs for this condition..
The rest of the wheels went smoothly. No issues at all, but it does make me wonder if there will be issues in the future.
I have attached some pictures of the hub, but they really do not show anything other than some studs and a hub..
Thanks.
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-12-2011, 12:36 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Waynesville
Posts: 14,428
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Alum or steel wheels? Youroo!!
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12-12-2011, 12:37 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Aluminum...
Primetime seems to be on the case. I have chatted on the phone and via email..
They seemed ok with the timeframe...
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-12-2011, 03:09 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,477
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Buy yourself a little jar of silver anti-seize and coat those lug studs so you never have this issue again. Good luck!
__________________
2015 XLR Hyperlite 30HFS5 (mods being performed regularly)
2009 Salem LA 292fkds (gone) 
Nights- ('12)23 ('13)23 ('14)15 ('15)31 ('16)27 ('17) 20 (‘18)21 (‘19)23
2019 Honda CRV (camping support vehicle)
2014 Harley Davidson FLHX (XLR cargo)
2011 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 CTD, B&W Companion (toy hauler hauler)
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12-12-2011, 03:15 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Taranwanderer
Buy yourself a little jar of silver anti-seize and coat those lug studs so you never have this issue again. Good luck!
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But that affects the torque rating. It will be much more tight than 100 ft/lbs...
Never grease lug studs with anti-seize or grease ..
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-12-2011, 03:32 PM
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#6
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Posts: 9,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxhead
But that affects the torque rating. It will be much more tight than 100 ft/lbs...
Never grease lug studs with anti-seize or grease ..
John
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Agree....big no-no.
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Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
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12-12-2011, 04:00 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,477
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I didn't say grease, I said anti-seize...a compound made specifically for this type of application. I might be new to RVing, but I'm not new to wrenching on stuff, and I've been using anti-seize on lug studs in high torque applications (ie, Jeep's studs that have a LOT of force applied to them during rock crawling,) and I've never had a problem with lug nuts sticking or loosening prematurely. Anti-seize is your friend, trust me.
__________________
2015 XLR Hyperlite 30HFS5 (mods being performed regularly)
2009 Salem LA 292fkds (gone)
Nights- ('12)23 ('13)23 ('14)15 ('15)31 ('16)27 ('17) 20 (‘18)21 (‘19)23
2019 Honda CRV (camping support vehicle)
2014 Harley Davidson FLHX (XLR cargo)
2011 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 CTD, B&W Companion (toy hauler hauler)
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12-12-2011, 05:18 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranwanderer
I didn't say grease, I said anti-seize...a compound made specifically for this type of application. I might be new to RVing, but I'm not new to wrenching on stuff, and I've been using anti-seize on lug studs in high torque applications (ie, Jeep's studs that have a LOT of force applied to them during rock crawling,) and I've never had a problem with lug nuts sticking or loosening prematurely. Anti-seize is your friend, trust me.
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Thank you for your reply.
First, I am unsure how anti-seize would have helped this situation. The lug nuts were not seized to the studs. The pictures clearly show that. The wheel studs themselves spun in the hub. I was able to get the lugnuts off with no real problem other than what I have already described.
Secondly, anti-seize does change the torque values. I'm sure. See the video.
Moly lube (anti-seize) is used, and torque values changed. I too, have over 30 years of experience working on cars, trucks, and trailers. I have never used anti-seize on wheel bolts or nuts, and never had a problem.
I respectfully disagree with your opinion
Trust me...
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-12-2011, 05:50 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 397
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Looks like the splines are still on the studs - were the holes in the hubs drilled too large?
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12-12-2011, 05:57 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by backin15
Looks like the splines are still on the studs - were the holes in the hubs drilled too large?
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That is what prime time and I think. Lippert has already denied the claim saying they looked over torqued. I say BS... I am so anal about torquing them correctly.
Prime time is still figuring exactly the best course of action. I'll pay for a hub at this point, I want to be able to go to Disney ...
PT has been great thus far. I am pleased with the service!
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-12-2011, 11:38 PM
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#11
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Don't call me Junior!!!
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midland Texas
Posts: 89
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I can only say Prime Time Service has been amazing for us.. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "SIMPLE Project" At least none that I have attempted  ..
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2012 Tracer Executive 2600RLS
2011 Chevy Tahoe HD Towing Pkg
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12-13-2011, 07:52 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaTex
I can only say Prime Time Service has been amazing for us.. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "SIMPLE Project" At least none that I have attempted .. |
Agree. PT service is fantastic. I am sure they will come through!
True on the simple projects... I never, ever, get an easy time when it comes to my stuff....
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-13-2011, 09:20 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Update..
PT is sending me a new hub, studs, and lugs directly from the manufacturer, at no charge! They have asked that I send them the hub and studs for inspection to make sure this does not happen again in the future. I think they have given Lippert an earful regarding this situation.
I am extremely pleased with the service that PT has provided me. I have always been a PT supporter and will continue to recommend their products to friends, family, and even strangers..! :-)
Lastly, I have a few questions to anyone that can answer.. My axle is rated at 4400lbs GAWR. Does anyone know the Part Numbers for the inner and outer bearings and races and rear seal for this hub?
Thanks!
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-13-2011, 02:01 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NEPA
Posts: 1,477
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Glad you're getting your issue straightened out. FL has got to be better than PA right now...
As for the torque/anti-seize issue: that video didn't say "don't use lube on your fasteners," it said "use the correct lube on your fasteners," ie, one that doesn't effect torque values (but that piece seemed like just a fancy ad for ARP). They didn't test on Permatex anti-seize but I don't believe it's use would change torque values enough to make any kind of difference (maybe 3-5%). All our hard-core Jeep and rock crawling buggy competitors use it on their lug studs and have never reported any issues. It might not have kept your lug studs from spinning in the first place, but it does make for less of a struggle when removing your lug nuts. I'm going to keep using it on any tire I change, and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
__________________
2015 XLR Hyperlite 30HFS5 (mods being performed regularly)
2009 Salem LA 292fkds (gone)
Nights- ('12)23 ('13)23 ('14)15 ('15)31 ('16)27 ('17) 20 (‘18)21 (‘19)23
2019 Honda CRV (camping support vehicle)
2014 Harley Davidson FLHX (XLR cargo)
2011 Ram 2500 CC 4X4 CTD, B&W Companion (toy hauler hauler)
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12-13-2011, 02:04 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taranwanderer
Glad you're getting your issue straightened out. FL has got to be better than PA right now...
As for the torque/anti-seize issue: that video didn't say "don't use lube on your fasteners," it said "use the correct lube on your fasteners," ie, one that doesn't effect torque values (but that piece seemed like just a fancy ad for ARP). They didn't test on Permatex anti-seize but I don't believe it's use would change torque values enough to make any kind of difference (maybe 3-5%). All our hard-core Jeep and rock crawling buggy competitors use it on their lug studs and have never reported any issues. It might not have kept your lug studs from spinning in the first place, but it does make for less of a struggle when removing your lug nuts. I'm going to keep using it on any tire I change, and I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. |
Fair enough...
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-13-2011, 06:32 PM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 5
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We had an old Ford that needed the driver rear wheel re-torqued weekly! However all the other wheels stayed tight. I'm glad those days are over!
Once you get good parts you'll be fine. Enjoy your trip! Hopefully you won't feel like you have to stop every 25 miles and check it. If you're like me, you'll be checking it every 20.
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'11 Flagstaff V Lite 26WRB
'07 Tahoe 5.3L
Husky straightline
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12-13-2011, 06:52 PM
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#17
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mercman
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: St. Marys ON Canada
Posts: 5
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I don,t think the studs were over torqued either they would have a twisted look to them. Take a caliper measure the hole size then the stud you should get your answer fast.
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12-14-2011, 02:09 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Part Timing It Now
Posts: 3,457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxhead
That is what prime time and I think. Lippert has already denied the claim saying they looked over torqued. I say BS... I am so anal about torquing them correctly.
Prime time is still figuring exactly the best course of action. I'll pay for a hub at this point, I want to be able to go to Disney ...
PT has been great thus far. I am pleased with the service!
John
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Didn't know you could tell if something was "over torqued" just by looking at a picture!! 
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 "PT Crew Members Since 9/2010"
2011 RAM 2500 HD 6.7L CTD Crew
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12-15-2011, 09:20 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 116
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Latest Update...
Primetime is sending me an entire hub replacement, complete with bearings, races, studs, and lugs.. I am happy camper! (pun intended)
But I am slightly concerned...
I have the Lippert part number for the assembly they are sending.. 141286. This is the correct hub, and it matches the one I have identically down to the bearings being the same.
It states that it is for a 3,500lbs axle. I have a 4400lbs axle. So, the hubs are/will be under-rated for the axle? Is this the cause of the failure?
I understand that we are "saving" weight everywhere we can, but is this the best place to do it? I am sure there is a safety factor built in, but I'd feel so much more comfortable with a hub that is at minimum, rated for the axle assembly.. Why not go for a 5200lbs hub/axle? Is the cost savings really that much? Heck, I'd pay for the upgrade..
Lastly, now, I have done even more research, digging.... Actually understanding what my axle tag says/means. It says 4400lbs GAWR, but reading the tag, it is actually a 3500lbs axle according to lippert's website.. So is it really rated to carry 4400lbs or did we just up the GAWR to make it work...? I am sure this is standard industry practice, but it really makes me uneasy.. especially on my upcoming long trip...
Thanks again to PT and their awesome service, I truly and sincerely appreciate it! I should have the new hub by first of next week.
John
__________________
2011 Primetime LaCrosse 318BHS Touring Ed
Joined the PT family on 10/2010
2006 Chevrolet 2500HD 4x4 T/V
John
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12-19-2011, 02:18 PM
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#20
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 580
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FYI - interesting questions on the hub rating, so we checked. This hub is used on both 3500 # and 4400 # axles and is rated for both applications.
PTM
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