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Old 12-02-2014, 11:59 AM   #1
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Done with propane

I bought my 2011 Rockwood TT with a 2000 watt inverter, 2 solar panels and 4 batteries so that I could boondock. However, after witnessing a propane explosion in a 5th wheel parked right behind me a few days ago, I refuse to use propane anymore. I know, I know - if it's used smart, it's relatively safe. I've told myself that for my 8 years of RVing, but I can't get past the sound and the sight of that explosion. I haven't slept all night since it happened because I keep hearing the explosion. The lady in the 5th wheel was rescued by a brave neighbor who climbed in the hole where her slide out was blown completely out of the 5th wheel by the explosion, but her little dog didn't make it out. It is a miracle that she's alive and not more severely injured. I've seen the aftermath several times but never actually witnessed it. You can't ignore it anymore when you actually see it happen. While researching operating any kind of refrigerator with solar I read that the chemicals in the RV refrigerators can mix and explode if the refrigerator isn't perfectly level. To which I responded - SERIOUSLY??? Why would they make an exploding refrigerator and install it in a rolling house?

So anyway - I am buying 2 Champion 3500/4000 generators and having them installed in the bed of my truck and I am adding 2 more
solar panels and four more batteries (removing the propane tank mounts and putting in another container to hold the batteries). I can cook pretty much anything on a fire outside or on a charcoal grill, or using the generator to run the microwave. My coffee pot is 12 volt. I can run water through the coffee pot or heat it up in the microwave to use for bathing and dishwashing or heat it up on the fire outside. My only issue is refrigeration. I've read that my freezer on my refrigerator can be used like an ice chest - just put a block of ice or a solidly frozen bag of ice in there in a pan to catch the water when it melts and put whatever I need to keep fresh - eggs, coffee creamer - in there. Pretty much will use the bottom of the refrigerator as a pantry. My only concern is what will happen to the refrigerator if I don't use it for a few years, then want to sell the RV? Does not using it hurt it?

Wondering if there are any other folks that boondock without propane?
Thanks!!
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:06 PM   #2
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So anyway - I am buying 2 Champion 3500/4000 generators and having them installed in the bed of my truck
I have one of these Champion generators. Are you going to be boondocking where noise from the generator will be a concern........as they aren't necessarily a quiet generator ?
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:25 PM   #3
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Boondocking

The whole purpose of boon docking for me is to be ALONE and away from people. Other than the occasional stop in a Walmart parking lot for the night, I plan to boondock away from people. I have no issue with plugging in somewhere sometimes, but when I'm out west - or on the coast - I want to boondock as far away from folks as possible. The rating on the Champion generator is 68 decibels. The Honda that is lauded for being so quiet is 58. I was hoping it wasn't that loud but if it is, I'll live with it as I won't be using it that much. I don't watch a lot of television - just use my computer at night. Hoping the new solar panels will give me enough battery power to do that at night.

Thanks!
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:27 PM   #4
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I understand that what you witnessed had to be horrifically tramatic. Frankly, I can't even imagine. This isn't an answer to your question and likely out of place- but are you sure that you aren't overreacting? Refrigerator explosions do happen, but they're extremely rare. I hear a hundred-fold times more car accidents than I do about camper/propane explosions. Yet, we all still drive.

I believe that you're setting yourself up for a lot of hard work (heating water in a coffee pot to bathe?!) and expense in generators, batteries, and recurring ice expenses.
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:44 PM   #5
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That's what I used to think. Just can't think that way anymore. Yes - hard work - but at least I'll be alive to do it!
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:48 PM   #6
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That's what I used to think.
What did you used to think?
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:51 PM   #7
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You might try one of these for refrigeration. Koolatron 29 qt. Voyager Cooler (12-Volt)-P27 at The Home Depot


Using fridge as pantry will keep it aired out if you open it a lot. But as far as the mechanics, I think you should bleed all the propane lines thoroughly. Check with the manufacturer. Many people store their rv for an extended time, and then a regular servicing seems to take care of any issues.


I think you should proceed with your plans. You will be that much closer to independence by eliminating one more dependency. But remember, generators need gas. How are you going to carry and store it? That too can be dangerous. Go for the solar as much as possible. All the best to you! Sylvia
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:20 PM   #8
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You might try one of these for refrigeration. Koolatron 29 qt. Voyager Cooler (12-Volt)-P27 at The Home Depot


Using fridge as pantry will keep it aired out if you open it a lot. But as far as the mechanics, I think you should bleed all the propane lines thoroughly. Check with the manufacturer. Many people store their rv for an extended time, and then a regular servicing seems to take care of any issues.


I think you should proceed with your plans. You will be that much closer to independence by eliminating one more dependency. But remember, generators need gas. How are you going to carry and store it? That too can be dangerous. Go for the solar as much as possible. All the best to you! Sylvia
Concur on all!

No matter what you do there are inherent dangers involved. All you can do is try to make smart decisions, maintain your equipment and keep safety first!
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:40 PM   #10
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We haven't boondocked, but we dry camp 95% of the time.
so propane is a must for us.
i'm a retired firefighter and have seen my share of disasters. I can tell you that what you saw is a very rare incident. I have no problem using propane in our rig.

if your neighbors house caught fire due to a gas explosion, would you refuse to use gas in your home?
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:43 PM   #11
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Going off your username....did you get any pictures of the explosion or fire or aftermath of the explosion?
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #12
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A working gas detector would help. In order for that much gas to build up and explode like you describe, I would assume the detector was inoperable. In my opinion, you are more at risk of causing harm to yourself or property from the generator and gasoline. Make sure all your batteries are well ventilated also, they can explode from gas build up.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:07 PM   #13
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Batteries explode as well,there is no getting around proper maintenance of all our systems.Good luck and happy camping.
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Old 12-02-2014, 02:55 PM   #14
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SBBev,your thinking that (ONLY 10) DBs diff from the HONDA is a (BIG) noise Diff! If you use the Champs you (WILL NOT) have to worry about People staying around Your RV! Youroo!!
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:04 PM   #15
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A 10db increase in volume will sound 2x as loud. Perceived sound is not proportional to the decibel reading.
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:54 PM   #16
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We haven't boondocked, but we dry camp 95% of the time.
so propane is a must for us.

if your neighbors house caught fire due to a gas explosion, would you refuse to use gas in your home?
X2.

Propane is used as a closed system. You don't pour it into containers - it's piped - and propane is usually not vented. Propane is tagged with a smell chemical so that a leak is detectable with your nose. Disadvantage to propane is that is used and stored under pressure. Disadvantage of a closed system is that it can easily be neglected.

Gasoline is poured from one container to another with some evaporation into the air. Spills during the pouring operation are cured by evaporation. Tanks are usually vented to allow gravity or suction flow - another source of atmospheric gasoline. Which is why gasoline should never be used inside living areas.

I assume you also have done away with all natural gas appliances (gas furnace, gas hot water heater, gas dryer, gas range, gas fireplace) inside your home. Same risk.

Frankly, I don't see gain from the gas alternative. But then I store my A-frame in the garage with the propane tanks installed (turned off at the tank valve). To me, the gas lawn tractor, snow blower, gas can, and even cars (also stored in garage) are a higher risk for garage explosions and fire.

But these are my thoughts and experiences, your choices
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:57 PM   #17
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I think you're letting your nerves get the best of you. I guess after the next traffic accident you see, you'll have to stop RV'ing, because, the next one could be you. Airplanes crash, too, but they're safer than cars, yet people are afraid to fly.

People have had water heaters rocket out of their houses (watch the Mythbusters' show on this one), and yet we've all still got them in our basements, potentially ticking time bombs.

Civilization didn't get where it is today because people sat on their hands, afraid to do anything.

You have to have a clear understanding of the REAL (not perceived) risk. Don't let misplaced fear stop you.
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:03 PM   #18
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Refrigerator explosions do happen, but they're extremely rare. I hear a hundred-fold times more car accidents than I do about camper/propane explosions. Yet, we all still drive.
I used to think like your quote. It's rare - no big deal - probably won't happen to me. What I witnessed wasn't a refrigerator issue but a heater issue. Not sure if it was blue flame or catalytic or what. It's thought to have been a quick connect malfunction and a warning system malfunction as well. The alarm should have gone off with the 5th wheel filling with propane - but it didn't. If I was mechanically and technically inclined and knew about how all these things work and could check all this stuff myself, I may not be so concerned. But the more I research, the more concerned I become. Cracked hoses, leaks, bad tanks, etc. Just too many things that can go wrong. I have options - so I choose the options.
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:06 PM   #19
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Photographs

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Going off your username....did you get any pictures of the explosion or fire or aftermath of the explosion?
Yes I did. I did it for the woman's insurance company and also because it was just too fascinating not to photograph. I'll try to figure out how to upload them here.
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Old 12-02-2014, 05:13 PM   #20
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It's a free country, (well sorta : -) if that what it takes to get in your comfort zone, so be it. Your right on admitting your mechanical skills are lacking, which adds to your fears, and rightly so. Better to feel safe, for if you don't have that, it's not fun.
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