Before Ordering a 320BHDSLE ???

[SoCalDustin]

Hello!

So after tons of RV shopping online and in person, my wife and I have pretty much narrowed our TT selection to the Coachman Freedom Express 320BHDS Liberty Edition.....

Problem is that we haven't actually seen this exact model in person
1) We've seen some standard Freedom Express models (310 & 312) and really liked the quality / craftsmanship of Coachman over all other Brands & Models
2) We really like the layout of the 320 and don't think anything else will suffice for our wants & needs
3) We live in Southern California and after an extensive web search, I can't find any 320's LE anywhere west of the Rockies to even go look at!!

Soooo..... I'm pretty much going to have place a factory order for one if we want it, but have a few questions for you all first before I have to jump into this $$ wise

1) I was going to order with the Premium, Liberty, Value, & Express Packages.... but heard that there is also a 50th Anniversary Edition...

Anyone have info on this?? I can't find it on their web site!! Any other packages to consider?

2) Anyone know how much weight these packages add to the Dry Weight?

Coachman web site says trailer is 7,015 lbs dry but I'm assuming that's without the packages?? And since I haven't been able to see one in person, I have no idea where that's going to put us!!! My TV is a 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 / 5.3L V8 / 3.42 RA / HD Trailering Package (Manual shows I can do 9,600 lb max trailer weight and GVW on the truck is 6,800 lbs) I'm assuming we will add about 1200 lbs of equipment / personal goods to the trailer and I'm a little concerned about the weights if the packages add too much more?!?

3) In the "Options" section of the Coachman website HERE it shows a LE Luxury upgrade.

Anyone know what that would consist of??? (The Coachman website shows pics of the 320 with some type of interior decor that is not even in the list of options, so is that it??)

4) Any other options that I should consider?

I was thinking for sure the 15K A/C. And maybe the 50 Amp upgrade w/ 2nd prewired A/C option, but is that really necessary?? Our travels will probably cross county to hit all major Nation Parks and such...

4) Anything else on this model that we need to be aware of before ordering, since we haven't been able to see it in person???

I know it is a big risk ordering it like this, but I really haven't been able to find anything else that is comparable to the 320! Looking for some advise before I commit.

Thanks for your help!!!

[ependydad]

I can't help with any of your questions (grin) but i can tell you that we ordered our Sabre sight-unseen and had only walked through one or two Sabres before that. We're very happy overall.

As for weights- generally your truck runs out of payload (ie the amount it can carry) long before hitting the maximum towing capacity. The number advertised is for a 150 pound driver only and nothing else in the truck. The truck has to carry its own weight, the driver, passenger(s), hitch, traveling supplies, anything in the truck bed and then tongue weight and shouldn't go over it's GVWR. With travel trailers, you will have 10%-15% of its actual loaded weight being carried as tongue weight. It's worthwhile running with the numbers to ensure that you'll be within the truck's GVWR.

[ependydad]

For a camper that long, I'd opt for 2 ACs- but I'm a sissy when it's warm.

[BamaBob]

This is just MY personal preference speaking - we just traded in our TT for a ultralightweight 5th wheel because we expressly plan on doing nationwide travel post-retirement.

Do you have experience towing a travel trailer that large? We had a 33' TT and really felt uncomfortable on long trips (even though we had 4 point anti-sway and airbags).

For that reason, we upgraded and I cannot tell you the MAJOR difference it has been! We hardly know we have anything behind us! No trailer sway and when a 18 wheeler blows past us at 90MPH there is no sway or issues (to be fair we have the Fort anti-sway system when may explain this away)

Just some food for thought while you make youre decisions <G>

Also, quality wise (again personal opinion here!) I am a Rockwood fan - ever since pop-up days very nice quality and a lot of nice creature comforts!
(They also have similar TT floorplans...but it IS nice being "Upstairs" in the bedroom

Rockwood Signature Ultra Lite Fifth Wheels by Forest River

[ependydad]

That just seems like a LOT of camper for a 1500 series truck. Taking the dry hitch weight from the specs (841) divided by the dry weight (7,015) gives you a tongue weight percentage of 12%.

Figuring a loaded camper adding 1,500 pounds to the dry weight (300 pounds for options- guessing and your estimate of 1,200 punds) gives you a wet weight around 8,515 lbs.

Taking the wet weight * the tongue weight percentage gives you tongue weight of 1,022 pounds. If you load in front of the axles heavy, that could increase by a percent or two (no idea how much travel trailer percentages change) means it could be even heavier.

[pwrplay]

I would say that is too much trailer for that truck. Can you pull it ? Yes you can. Will it be safe? That is debatable. You'll be very heavy, and long trips, especially in hilly terrain, will be a struggle for that truck with 3.42 gears.
I had an 08 F150 w/ 5.4 and 3.73 gears and 1550 lbs Cargo Capacity, pulling the TT in my sig. My loaded weight was 7500lbs (the truck's GVWR was 7200lbs) . With 2 adults and 2 - 70 lbs kids and a 75lb dog we where at our max payload on that truck. There where times where it was the tail wagging the dog. I would never have pulled a 320 with that truck. If the dealer sells you that trailer on the premise your truck can safely pull it. they are lying.











I have since upgraded to the F250 in my sig and she pulls that TT with ease.

[Bryan2503S]

I can't even imagine towing a 37ft open utility trailer with my comparable Silverado, let alone that monster.

Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful unit, but you need to be prepared to upgrade your truck for something that big.....and consider a 5th wheel trailer as well since it will be so much easier to make turns and back it in.

Whats really sad tho is when I looked up the trailer on a random RV dealer website and it does say:

"Freedom Express Travel Trailers deliver ultra-light luxury combined with top selling floorplans in an affordable value added package designed to be towed by today’s midsize SUV’s and half ton vehicles."

Best of luck with whatever you choose!

[SoCalDustin]

Thanks for the replies on the weights!

It was definitely a concern of mine, and yet at the same time, every RV dealer said I should be good. The length to me is no big deal, as I'm used to driving something that long, but my TV weight has always been a question in my mind.

But I am a little confused.... So according to the Chevy manual, I can theoretically have a max trailer weight of 9,600 lbs. Now let's say I loaded the trailer up to a total of 8,500 and threw on a Weight Distributing hitch... How much will that cut the overall tongue weight? I understand that you have to account for the tongue weight for the tow vehicles weight, but if that WD hitch cuts the weight down a good percentage then I should be good on the total weights??? (I know prob not, but why?)


After posting this and seeing a few replies, I looked at a Chevy 2500 Diesel and boy are the $$$$$

Any idea what a good weight would be for a trailer then if I wanted to stay with the 1500?

Also, anyone else know about some of my other questions on the 320?

[ependydad]

With your 1500, we need to know what your cargo carrying capacity is as well as a ballpark estimate for how much you and the family + gear weigh (meaning- how much payload/CCC is left over?).

The CCC is listed on a sticker on the doorjamb and reads something along the lines of "the maximum weight of occupants an cargo must not exceed XXX pounds". It also usually shows the max inflation for the tires.

[BamaBob]

Originally Posted by SoCalDustin

Thanks for the replies on the weights!

It was definitely a concern of mine, and yet at the same time, every RV dealer said I should be good. The length to me is no big deal, as I'm used to driving something that long, but my TV weight has always been a question in my mind.

But I am a little confused.... So according to the Chevy manual, I can theoretically have a max trailer weight of 9,600 lbs. Now let's say I loaded the trailer up to a total of 8,500 and threw on a Weight Distributing hitch... How much will that cut the overall tongue weight? I understand that you have to account for the tongue weight for the tow vehicles weight, but if that WD hitch cuts the weight down a good percentage then I should be good on the total weights??? (I know prob not, but why?)


After posting this and seeing a few replies, I looked at a Chevy 2500 Diesel and boy are the $$$$$

Any idea what a good weight would be for a trailer then if I wanted to stay with the 1500?

Also, anyone else know about some of my other questions on the 320?

How many are going to be camping? if it is just you and DW you can downsize a bit.

You would be surprised at how much ROOM a ultralight 5th wheel has - I still believe they are a better deal than a TT - then again I am biased LOL

[SoCalDustin]

Originally Posted by ependydad

With your 1500, we need to know what your cargo carrying capacity is as well as a ballpark estimate for how much you and the family + gear weigh (meaning- how much payload/CCC is left over?).

The CCC is listed on a sticker on the doorjamb and reads something along the lines of "the maximum weight of occupants an cargo must not exceed XXX pounds". It also usually shows the max inflation for the tires.

The sticker says 1268 lbs for the cargo. Also, 3950 for the GAWR.

It would be myself, wife, and a 1.5 yr old monster, with plans for another later down the road. Let's call it 500 lbs for passengers? As far as cargo goes, wouldn't it be better to pack the trailer and use the WD hitch to your advantage?

one of the reasons why we liked the 320, is it seemed like it gave us room to shove the little monsters in the back bunk room and be a good area for them growing up, figuring we would have the trailer for 10 yrs or longer.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can't do 5th wheel with a 1/2 ton right? I haven't even considers them yet if so...

[BamaBob]

Take a look at the forest River links I sent you in an earlier post you certainly can tow a UltraLite fifth wheel with your truck in fact one of the fifth wheel ultralight floorplans I'm thinking of has a bump for your kids. It consists of a room at the back end of the RV that is it two bunk bed room and I believe it has a small bathroom as well

[ependydad]

With only about 700 pounds remaining with your payload, you'll be over GVWR, at or over rear axle weight rating and at or over tire load capacity (unless you change tires) with most any fifth wheel. You lose more payload to the weight of the hitch itself. The pin weight on fifth wheels is higher than travel trailers starting at 15% (rare) but more usually near 20% and upwards to 25%. With your truck, payload and numbers - I have to disagree with Alabama here and say I wouldn't recommend a fifth wheel.

That said, you're right that you will want to load as much as possible into the camper. But with a 1 1/2 year old, you're likely going to be carrying things you might not have thought of - 1) his car seat itself is weight, 2) drinks/snacks to keep him/her and y'all occupied, 3) entertainment activities for them (toys, books, blankets, etc- and that crap gets more numerous as they get older! I have a 18 month old and an almost 10 year old). You'll also want to account for most anything that you put into the truck bed (maybe yours will be empty)- truck cap/bed cover, firewood, cooler, bikes, strollers, tools, toolbox, etc.

When you add it all up, it can be frustrating how little you can tow and stay within your ratings. Which, I guess is why many choose to exceed one or more ratings (or do it unknowingly). All I want is for you to be aware and not take a dealer's word for it- they just want a sale! My sister's girlfriend has a mammoth TT and an itty-bitty TrailBlazer because the dealer said they were good to go. She and her hubby won't listen to the first thing on weights to at least be educated.

But, the question that you asked - I don't have an answer to. I never pulled a travel trailer (jumped from pop-up and fifth wheel). How does the WDH effect the payload numbers? You're right that some weight is distributed back to the trailer's tires/axles. The weight that is restored to your steer axle on the truck doesn't help because it still gets counted against the truck's GVWR. I just don't know how the weight that goes back to the trailer axles gets counted.

[SoCalDustin]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

Take a look at the forest River links I sent you in an earlier post you certainly can tow a UltraLite fifth wheel with your truck in fact one of the fifth wheel ultralight floorplans I'm thinking of has a bump for your kids. It consists of a room at the back end of the RV that is it two bunk bed room and I believe it has a small bathroom as well

So looking through the manual, it looks like the "Crew Cab" models are like the only model that has a special marking saying "neither intended or designed to tow a 5th wheel or gooseneck trailer".... Go figure

[snapper]

Hello, as a new owner of a coachman310BHDS LE I can tell you that I also was interested in the 320, however. I choose the 800 pound lighter 310. The unit you are looking at weighs approx 8000 lbs empty. You're truck is too small for this trailer. Your differential gearing is too low. I have a dodge ram 1500 h EMI with 3.92 ratio and pulls the 310 quite well. I was going to purchase the 320 but was scared of the additional 800 pounds. If you are set in that beautiful unit you have to upgrade your truck.

I started with 8 different trailers when we were looking and found that the coachman had so many better options and that quality is so much better in the ultra lights. WE also liked the larger dinnette of the 310 With a larger group of people camping with us and also indoor activities when the weather gets bad the larger dinnette will be used more for entertainment.

The 15k a/c unit is a must, however most of them are equipt with them. No need for2 a/c units. If you add another unit the weight goes up 200lbs.

Lastly any units built now are50 th aniv units. It is just a few appearance issues and stickers on the coach. Good luck. I hope this helped

[BamaBob]

This'll probably start a flame war <G>.....

Ford pretty much hit the nail on the head with their latest advertising--you know the one where they say if you want to see what people who work for a living really use as a work truck, go behind the construction barriers and look --they are all Fords. Well Ford is pretty much with correct (it also doesn't hurt that Ford Motor Company has the experience in building the chassis drive train and motor assemblies for the M1 A1 main battle tank <HUGE GRIN>

Simply put Ford trucks can tow-- they generate a heck of a lot of torque at low rpm's. (and, like the Ford commercial says, torque is what gets work done <G> )

We were having a "sporty" discussion on another thread about total tow weights with trucks, but the bottom line is my F150 can tow up to 11,300 pounds as long as it's equipped with the special ordered towing package, the special ordered springs, and the special ordered differential, we have absolutely no problem towing our ultralight fifth wheel--and that is on level ground, going up medium to severe grades and going down the same (The integrated braking system Ford includes in the heavy duty trailer towing package is one of the best I have ever used! It's nice to put on the brakes and have everything stop as one integrated unit with no sway in the trailer and no feeling of being pushed in the truck cab

(BTW trailer sway is nonexistent when you migrate from a travel trailer to a fifth wheel, although there is an anti-sway system built into the heavy duty trailer towing package on the Ford which probably helps to some extent)

[lbrjet]

A WDH will typically transfer 15-20% of the TW to the trailer axles. It may also weigh upwards of 100lbs itself which negates probably half of what it is transferring to the trailer so don't expect miracles.

[RKR]

Originally Posted by HSVBamaBob

This'll probably start a flame war <G>..... Ford pretty much hit the nail on the head with their latest advertising--you know the one where they say if you want to see what people who work for a living really use as a work truck, go behind the construction barriers and look --they are all Fords. Well Ford is pretty much with correct (it also doesn't hurt that Ford Motor Company has the experience in building the chassis drive train and motor assemblies for the M1 A1 main battle tank <HUGE GRIN> Simply put Ford trucks can tow-- they generate a heck of a lot of torque at low rpm's. (and, like the Ford commercial says, torque is what gets work done <G> ) We were having a "sporty" discussion on another thread about total tow weights with trucks, but the bottom line is my F150 can tow up to 11,300 pounds as long as it's equipped with the special ordered towing package, the special ordered springs, and the special ordered differential, we have absolutely no problem towing our ultralight fifth wheel--and that is on level ground, going up medium to severe grades and going down the same (The integrated braking system Ford includes in the heavy duty trailer towing package is one of the best I have ever used! It's nice to put on the brakes and have everything stop as one integrated unit with no sway in the trailer and no feeling of being pushed in the truck cab (BTW trailer sway is nonexistent when you migrate from a travel trailer to a fifth wheel, although there is an anti-sway system built into the heavy duty trailer towing package on the Ford which probably helps to some extent)

I can only speak from my personal observation from the last 15yrs of working in the oilfield here in South Texas.
There was a time when Ford did dominate the HD truck market down here. I was not really a Ford guy but years ago Ford built THE truck for oilfield work. We would run them hard , many times over loaded. The ranch roads that are used down here to get to the drilling sites are brutal and we roll 24-7-365. The drive trains would outlast the bodies. I had one 1999 F-350 W/Powerstroke that had over 200K oilfield miles on it. We used it until the bed was literally falling off.
Ford lost some market share when they tried to improve the Powerstroke. We starting having pickups that would hit 60 to 80k miles and that scattered a few turbos, injector tube failures , head failures The warranty covered most of work but it would take months to get them fixed because the dealerships were full of other oilfield company service trucks with pretty much the same issues. The ones that were beyond warranty coverage were costing up to 3K to repair. I know this because I was approving the invoices.
Anyways, here in 2013 the make and model down here is pretty evenly divided.Ford did improve on the Powerstroke and they did get it back on track but that bad series of Powerstroke did hurt them down here.
We are currently using mostly Dodges because of pricing but had 2 pickups break tie rods and they wouldn't cover it under warranty. They claimed abuse. Funny thing is now they have a recall on the tie rods for many HD pickups , including most of ours.
I own a 2011 Chevy because I noticed minimal down time I saw from the 2009's. The 5 2011 models we currently use have only seen the shop for maintenance and tires. The 2 2011 Fords are also doing well. The Dodges aren't doing so well. These are all diesel powered HD pickups that I'm talking about.
I doubt anybody on here will put their pickup through what we do. At least I hope not.
Just do some research take your next TV for a test drive , get a good price and buy it. I think all makes are good for your average highway driving TV.
Buy what makes you happy and remember, like they say , not everything you read on the internet OR see in a commercial is true. They are trying to sell you a product.

[MagnoliaTom]

Dustin, I own a 2014 320BHDS Liberty Edition with all the extra bells and whistles. Even the 50th anniversary edition. What information would you like to know? I'll have to check my yellow sticker but I believe the dry weight is around 7800 lbs.

It is a great unit and my family and I LOVE it. Yes it is big, but not much more so than the 310 (which we used to have).

We tow it with my wife's diesel excursion or my F250 with no problems. I'm no expert but it is a big rig and the half ton Chevy might be at its limit.

[MagnoliaTom]

Originally Posted by SoCalDustin

Hello!

So after tons of RV shopping online and in person, my wife and I have pretty much narrowed our TT selection to the Coachman Freedom Express 320BHDS Liberty Edition.....

Problem is that we haven't actually seen this exact model in person
1) We've seen some standard Freedom Express models (310 & 312) and really liked the quality / craftsmanship of Coachman over all other Brands & Models
2) We really like the layout of the 320 and don't think anything else will suffice for our wants & needs
3) We live in Southern California and after an extensive web search, I can't find any 320's LE anywhere west of the Rockies to even go look at!!

Soooo..... I'm pretty much going to have place a factory order for one if we want it, but have a few questions for you all first before I have to jump into this $$ wise

1) I was going to order with the Premium, Liberty, Value, & Express Packages.... but heard that there is also a 50th Anniversary Edition...

Anyone have info on this?? I can't find it on their web site!! Any other packages to consider?

2) Anyone know how much weight these packages add to the Dry Weight?

Coachman web site says trailer is 7,015 lbs dry but I'm assuming that's without the packages?? And since I haven't been able to see one in person, I have no idea where that's going to put us!!! My TV is a 2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 / 5.3L V8 / 3.42 RA / HD Trailering Package (Manual shows I can do 9,600 lb max trailer weight and GVW on the truck is 6,800 lbs) I'm assuming we will add about 1200 lbs of equipment / personal goods to the trailer and I'm a little concerned about the weights if the packages add too much more?!?

3) In the "Options" section of the Coachman website HERE it shows a LE Luxury upgrade.

Anyone know what that would consist of??? (The Coachman website shows pics of the 320 with some type of interior decor that is not even in the list of options, so is that it??)

4) Any other options that I should consider?

I was thinking for sure the 15K A/C. And maybe the 50 Amp upgrade w/ 2nd prewired A/C option, but is that really necessary?? Our travels will probably cross county to hit all major Nation Parks and such...

4) Anything else on this model that we need to be aware of before ordering, since we haven't been able to see it in person???

I know it is a big risk ordering it like this, but I really haven't been able to find anything else that is comparable to the 320! Looking for some advise before I commit.

Thanks for your help!!!

My yellow sticker says the dry weight is 7875

I believe when you get the Liberty Express package the 50amp service is included. That package includes (at least mine did) everything in the Premium and value packages.

The 50th anniversary package consists of a different ceiling treatment, light colored corian counters, a more residential looking fireplace mantel and tile surround, LED lighting throughout, LED awning and step lights, a 32' TV (I can't remember if this was a Liberty express upgrade or the 50th anniv upgrade), a picnic table and some other things I can't remember.

I got the second AC and would recommend you do too if you camp a lot in the summer. Mine came with the 15K AC, but most all trailers in Houston do...too hot down here in the summer.

Like I said before, we love this camper and we have 3 kids that are under age 9, so we plan to have it for the long haul. We feel this unit will meet our needs for the future as well when the kids want to bring friends along.

Hope this helps...
If you need any other info, I'd be happy to help