Freedom Express 246rks

[flyboy700]

Ironically, just when the wife and I were seriously considering moving up in size from our Rockwood 2304ks to the Express246rks, along comes dward51's tale of woo's with his trailers frame.
So I'm wondering, are there any happy Freedom Expess owners out there?, would we be making a serious mistake? I have concerns about the spaced axles and the weight of the kitchen concentrated at the rear of the trailer, and am not happy about having to go back to leaf spring suspension. Opinions?
John

[clarkbre]

Don't let Dward51's thread deter you from any Brand of Forest River....They all sit on poorly built frames supplied by Lippert.

Mine needed $6,000 of warranty work because the original welds didn't hold the suspension to the frame.

[flyboy700]

Originally Posted by clarkbre

Don't let Dward51's thread deter you from any Brand of Forest River....They all sit on poorly built frames supplied by Lippert.

Mine needed $6,000 of warranty work because the original welds didn't hold the suspension to the frame.

That's reassuring [emoji11]

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by flyboy700

That's reassuring [emoji11]

It's a crappy reality. Very frustrating at best.

[ependydad]

The take away here is that ever brand has the same frames underneath except for a few outliers. Lippert's frames fail. Either because they make the frames for everyone or they make them to a low price/quality point or they make a crappy product or all of the above.

Thing is, you can't get away with them.

The best you can do is regularly inspect your equipment and do preventative maintenance. Some people will proactively beef up the frame.

And finally, there isn't a make/model that you won't find that doesn't have a lemon or two out there. Don't let one story scare you off.

[woo10-210]

Compare the TT UVW against the cargo carrying capacity. The greater the cargo capacity, the stouter the frame will be. At least in theory. One of the things that made me want the 2019 Rockwood 2902WS over the 2018 model was that the CCC increased by almost 600 pounds on the newer model even though the dry weight increased by 200 pounds. That's an 800 pound increase in GVWR. I haven't actually done a physical comparison but, by the numbers, FR put a beefier frame in the newer model.

[dward51]

Let me start by saying I have not posted anything about our frame issues with the intent of scaring anyone away from FR, the FE line or the 246RKS model. I had seen there were a number of trailers (not all FR or FE) with frame cracks in various posts, and I was sharing what we had found and how I'm handling the repairs in the hopes it will help someone else.

Other than the frame repair and the hassle of getting that underbelly off and back (pending and not unique to that model), I have no complaints about the FE 246RKS. And I will also say that both FR and Lippert did not try to put me off at any time, and once I contacted them it was basically getting them photos and scheduling to get the frame repaired. They did the right thing which was a huge plus for me.

My personal belief is the main culprit in the frame is the desire to make a decent sized, livable couples trailer, with the goodies people want, but keep it light weight to market to the 1/2 ton and SUV crowds. Something has to give and thinner steel may be what it was. I don't know if it will matter what brand you buy, if it's in that size and weight bracket you are probably going to look at the same potential problems. I say potential because there are a lot of people with this model who have *NOT* had this problem. And there are people with totally different brands/models that have had similar issues. It's just the nature of a trailer bouncing behind your TV on the road (I read somewhere it was the equivalent of a magnitude 4 earthquake the entire trip).

The wildcard in mine was I'm the 2nd owner. Of course the first owners (a couple in their 70's) said they never took it boondocking, pampered it, etc.. and the rest of the trailer supports that (which was even confirmed by the LCI tech who fixed mine). But did they hit that "one pothole" at the wrong angle? Who knows. I know I didn't do anything other than drive it on the interstate before we noticed the problem. The old rust indicated the problem had been there for a while, but until that axle shifted, it was not outwardly visible unless you crawled under the TT (I had not done so). Rusty weakened steel would be subject to road forces which "might" be stronger from the wide stance axles.

But IMO, if you are aware of the potential of this problem IN ANY TRAILER, just look under there at your frame, hangers and axles from time to time. If you see cracks in the paint, wire brush and repaint to seal (stop rust under the paint). If you see worse, deal with it and get back on the road.

Other than that, enjoy a 246RKS if that is the model you like!!!

[babock]

My opinion... don't buy a spread axles trailer.

If you do buy one, do everything in your power not to do tight turns on pavement.

Beef up the spring hangers. Add crossmembers by either adding the Morryde crossmembers or get some welded on.

I also added a Morryde suspension to mine to soften the ride.

[flyboy700]

Originally Posted by dward51

Let me start by saying I have not posted anything about our frame issues with the intent of scaring anyone away from FR, the FE line or the 246RKS model. I had seen there were a number of trailers (not all FR or FE) with frame cracks in various posts, and I was sharing what we had found and how I'm handling the repairs in the hopes it will help someone else.

Other than the frame repair and the hassle of getting that underbelly off and back (pending and not unique to that model), I have no complaints about the FE 246RKS. And I will also say that both FR and Lippert did not try to put me off at any time, and once I contacted them it was basically getting them photos and scheduling to get the frame repaired. They did the right thing which was a huge plus for me.

My personal belief is the main culprit in the frame is the desire to make a decent sized, livable couples trailer, with the goodies people want, but keep it light weight to market to the 1/2 ton and SUV crowds. Something has to give and thinner steel may be what it was. I don't know if it will matter what brand you buy, if it's in that size and weight bracket you are probably going to look at the same potential problems. I say potential because there are a lot of people with this model who have *NOT* had this problem. And there are people with totally different brands/models that have had similar issues. It's just the nature of a trailer bouncing behind your TV on the road (I read somewhere it was the equivalent of a magnitude 4 earthquake the entire trip).

The wildcard in mine was I'm the 2nd owner. Of course the first owners (a couple in their 70's) said they never took it boondocking, pampered it, etc.. and the rest of the trailer supports that (which was even confirmed by the LCI tech who fixed mine). But did they hit that "one pothole" at the wrong angle? Who knows. I know I didn't do anything other than drive it on the interstate before we noticed the problem. The old rust indicated the problem had been there for a while, but until that axle shifted, it was not outwardly visible unless you crawled under the TT (I had not done so). Rusty weakened steel would be subject to road forces which "might" be stronger from the wide stance axles.

But IMO, if you are aware of the potential of this problem IN ANY TRAILER, just look under there at your frame, hangers and axles from time to time. If you see cracks in the paint, wire brush and repaint to seal (stop rust under the paint). If you see worse, deal with it and get back on the road.

Other than that, enjoy a 246RKS if that is the model you like!!!

Thanks dward51. Your experience just rIsed concerns that I all ready had because of the extra weight the trailer has at the very rear, and also the axle spread.
Otherwise we are very interested because of the interior layout, overall quality, and the perfect trailer lenght.
Thanks again, and happy trailering, John

[Cougarfan]

I love my Freedom Express 246RKS. I'm actually living in mine full time! This trailer has an incredible amount of storage for its size. It doesn't have a lot of wide open floor space, but for me it works great. The dog is getting used to having his tail stepped on The carrying capacity on mine is over 2200lbs so I'm able to load this puppy up with whatever I want and not worry about overloading it. I don't travel with full tanks though.

I've camped in this trailer when it was 105 degrees for about 4 days straight and I was able to keep the trailer at a constant 75 degrees. I think the Azdel helped with that to some extent but I was also able to park so the awning could keep the sun off almost the entire side of the trailer in the afternoon. Camping in the cold is another story. I might try to insulate the underside to make it more comfortable in the winter. I have an older dog that has a leaky bladder so I can't add rugs at this point which I know would help.

I love having a sofa, a dinette, and a dedicated bed. There could be a little more kitchen counter space but I make it work with a wood cover for the stove that I can move over the sink, and I have a smaller wood cover I use in the bathroom to add space to work in the morning. The BBQ that came in it's own little compartment was an added bonus! I've used the heck out of that thing because it is so convenient to store. I probably wouldn't have one if I had to figure out where to store it for travel.

I too had the frame cracks but FR and Lippert took care of everything with minimal inconvenience for me (I wasn't living in it at the time I had the repair done).

I have the spread axles and don't seem to have any issues pulling it, parking it, backing it, or whatever. I don't choose 90 degree back-in spots when I make my reservations either. The slanted spots are no problem for me. Just to park it where I am now, I have to pull up, back around the edge of a building, then change directions to go around my neighbor's big dually, then change directions again to get in the spot. I just go slow and have had no issues with the wheels being tweaked when I'm done. If they were, I would just pull forward and then back straight up to realign them.

I had a leak from day one that the dealer where I bought it couldn't (or in my case, wouldn't) find out where it was. About a month ago, I took it to a different dealer and he found that one of the bolts holding the rear awning bracket wasn't sealed at the factory. Ever since that was sealed, voila, no more leak! (I fired off an email to the service manager at the dealer where I bought it and let him know about the fix since I'd already had it in there 3 times for repair of the leak. They offered to help me install a new cabinet if I decide to do that which I thought was nice.)

I have had this trailer for 4 years and bought it new (leftover 2014 on the lot). I have only done minimal modifications to maximize the storage space for full time living with a few more things to finish up and I'll be done. Like better foam for the cushions, and MCD duo shades for the two windows in the living area.

I think any rv will have problems. If FR and Lippert weren't stepping up and fixing the frame issue at no cost to the owners, you would probably get much different opinions.

Laura

On edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think the rear kitchen weight is a problem with this model. The axles are pretty far back which, I think, helps balance the trailer. The water tank is back there too so I don't fill that when traveling, just about 1/3 tank so I have some water on the road. I have a ton of stuff in my pass through storage, which is huge by the way, so that also helps counteract the weight of the kitchen.

[dward51]

X2 on the don't travel with tanks full. Not so much because it's this model trailer, but in general. Otherwise water is not just the dead weight of the water in the tank, but you have the added force that water can have as it bounces and sloshes up and slams back down inside the tank. We usually run about 1/4 a tank of fresh and the grey and black empty. Some water is good to have in case you stop for a quick lunch in the trailer or need to take a "break" and just in case (for washing hands, flushing, etc...).

I know there is a sticker on my back bumper about not having any bumper mounted accessories unless they were a factory installed option. I have seen plenty of trailers with a bolt on receiver and one of those 500lb platforms loaded up on the back bumper. I can see where that would potentially be a problem especially on these lighter framed 1/2 towable trailers. That is a lot of leverage force if you extend it off the back of the bumper (which is not re-enforced to handle the stress which WILL be transmitted to the frame). I think that is one of the first things the repair tech looked at when he examined our trailer, but we had not done this.

Just use some common sense about weights and where they are.

[babock]

I tow with full water on mine. It's half way between the axles and the tongue so really not that big of a deal as long as the supports have been replaced. The area that is getting nailed is in the vicinity of the axles for a combo of reasons.

As far as putting something on the bumper or those supports that tie into the frame back there...no freaking way. Bad idea!

[flyboy700]

Originally Posted by Cougarfan

I love my Freedom Express 246RKS. I'm actually living in mine full time! This trailer has an incredible amount of storage for its size. It doesn't have a lot of wide open floor space, but for me it works great. The dog is getting used to having his tail stepped on The carrying capacity on mine is over 2200lbs so I'm able to load this puppy up with whatever I want and not worry about overloading it. I don't travel with full tanks though.

I've camped in this trailer when it was 105 degrees for about 4 days straight and I was able to keep the trailer at a constant 75 degrees. I think the Azdel helped with that to some extent but I was also able to park so the awning could keep the sun off almost the entire side of the trailer in the afternoon. Camping in the cold is another story. I might try to insulate the underside to make it more comfortable in the winter. I have an older dog that has a leaky bladder so I can't add rugs at this point which I know would help.

I love having a sofa, a dinette, and a dedicated bed. There could be a little more kitchen counter space but I make it work with a wood cover for the stove that I can move over the sink, and I have a smaller wood cover I use in the bathroom to add space to work in the morning. The BBQ that came in it's own little compartment was an added bonus! I've used the heck out of that thing because it is so convenient to store. I probably wouldn't have one if I had to figure out where to store it for travel.

I too had the frame cracks but FR and Lippert took care of everything with minimal inconvenience for me (I wasn't living in it at the time I had the repair done).

I have the spread axles and don't seem to have any issues pulling it, parking it, backing it, or whatever. I don't choose 90 degree back-in spots when I make my reservations either. The slanted spots are no problem for me. Just to park it where I am now, I have to pull up, back around the edge of a building, then change directions to go around my neighbor's big dually, then change directions again to get in the spot. I just go slow and have had no issues with the wheels being tweaked when I'm done. If they were, I would just pull forward and then back straight up to realign them.

I had a leak from day one that the dealer where I bought it couldn't (or in my case, wouldn't) find out where it was. About a month ago, I took it to a different dealer and he found that one of the bolts holding the rear awning bracket wasn't sealed at the factory. Ever since that was sealed, voila, no more leak! (I fired off an email to the service manager at the dealer where I bought it and let him know about the fix since I'd already had it in there 3 times for repair of the leak. They offered to help me install a new cabinet if I decide to do that which I thought was nice.)

I have had this trailer for 4 years and bought it new (leftover 2014 on the lot). I have only done minimal modifications to maximize the storage space for full time living with a few more things to finish up and I'll be done. Like better foam for the cushions, and MCD duo shades for the two windows in the living area.

I think any rv will have problems. If FR and Lippert weren't stepping up and fixing the frame issue at no cost to the owners, you would probably get much different opinions.

Laura

On edit: I forgot to mention that I don't think the rear kitchen weight is a problem with this model. The axles are pretty far back which, I think, helps balance the trailer. The water tank is back there too so I don't fill that when traveling, just about 1/3 tank so I have some water on the road. I have a ton of stuff in my pass through storage, which is huge by the way, so that also helps counteract the weight of the kitchen.

Luara, thanks so much, I appreciate the time and thought you put into your reply, happy camping, John Lee, Bozeman, Montana

[flyboy700]

Originally Posted by flyboy700

Luara, thanks so much, I appreciate the time and thought you put into your reply, happy camping, John Lee, Bozeman, Montana

Sorry again, misspelled your name, Laura [emoji6]

[Lee Pedrick]

I bought a 2018 FR travel trailer. I was not made aware it has a 2013 frame under it, which was probably sitting out in the weather all those years. Thats FRAUD!!! And before my 1 yr warranty runs out in may, I will deal with this,, even if it involves a Lawyer. That dealer already screwed me over shoddy repairs before. This could become a class action lawsuit if everyone would come together. And no,,, My "2018" trailer frame was not corrected for the RECALL. I am getting pissed. Dward 51 you are doing the right thing! We all need to be made aware of this.

[dward51]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

I bought a 2018 FR travel trailer. I was not made aware it has a 2013 frame under it, which was probably sitting out in the weather all those years. Thats FRAUD!!! And before my 1 yr warranty runs out in may, I will deal with this,, even if it involves a Lawyer. That dealer already screwed me over shoddy repairs before. This could become a class action lawsuit if everyone would come together. And no,,, My "2018" trailer frame was not corrected for the RECALL. I am getting pissed. Dward 51 you are doing the right thing! We all need to be made aware of this.

From my talking with FR and the tech who did my repair, it's not a 2013 trailer frame that has been sitting around and was installed in a 2015 (mine) or 2018 (yours) trailer. The "TT2013" is a basic design of the frame which has remained unchanged at it's core for the models that use that same "220" frame (many models built on one core frame). I would presume this means they designed the "basic or core" 220 frame for travel trailers in the FR line in 2013. It's sort of like a concrete block. Probably invented in the 1930's and we still use the same core design today with improvements in the mix, etc...

They have made changes to the way the frame was built, such as adding in small angle supports between the lower flange and the upper flange at the hangers, etc... My trailer had all the manufacturing updates for 2015 and was not a "leftover frame". I had asked that exact question of FR when I saw my sticker.

The NHTSA recall on the 2013-2014 models is 17V-611 and was issued because some of the frame stiffeners were not in place on those 7 models for 2013-2014. You can view that recall here:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...7V611-1558.PDF

That recall *DID NOT* apply to my trailer, but finding it in a web search is what led me to call FR and Lippert as some of my issues looked like photos others who owned 2013-2014 models had posted. Similar results, but apparently caused by different problems (as I previously stated I think this is really about the trade off of reducing weight and the desire of the public to have a larger nicer trailer towable by 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's, we are asking a lot of those lightweight frames).

So don't panic. If you don't have any frame areas or welds to the outriggers that have cracked, there is nothing to address. Remember it is not every trailer even in even the 2013-2014 batches that failed. It is more like under certain road conditions if XY&Z happen it "can" fail and FR and Lippert have been fixing those that do at no cost to the owner.

My advise to any trailer owner, regardless of brand or model, is at least once a year get down on the ground and visually inspect the frame of your trailer to see if you have any problems. If you see anything that needs to be addressed, it's easier to fix at the offset than later when it's worse.

[Lee Pedrick]

Heres my spec sheet for my 243RBS catalina legacy edition.
UVW= 5,746lbs
Carrying capacity=1,848 lbs
GVWR=7,600
Two Axles=3500 each=7,000 lbs
Tires= 2,150 each =8,600 lbs
UVW+CARRY CAPACITY=7,584 lbs. Advertised.
Thats 584 lbs over what the axles are designed to carry, but what FR says this trailer can carry. DUH!!!! Do the math!! How much,, Says Lippert can their frame carry? Somebody help me here with the math. The NTSD needs to see this. I got all this info out of FRs sales brochure.

[clarkbre]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

Heres my spec sheet for my 243RBS catalina legacy edition.
UVW= 5,746lbs
Carrying capacity=1,848 lbs
GVWR=7,600
Two Axles=3500 each=7,000 lbs
Tires= 2,150 each =8,600 lbs
UVW+CARRY CAPACITY=7,584 lbs. Advertised.
Thats 584 lbs over what the axles are designed to carry, but what FR says this trailer can carry. DUH!!!! Do the math!! How much,, Says Lippert can their frame carry? Somebody help me here with the math. The NTSD needs to see this. I got all this info out of FRs sales brochure.

The numbers are ok.

Please tell me when the tongue carries 0% of the trailer weight.

So at 7,600 gvwr, even with a 10% (the bare minimum) it would reduce the axle weight down to 6,840.

If you bump it up to 12% the axles would only carry 6,688.

[dward51]

I would go by the sticker on the trailer as it is more specific to the actual build. Brochure info is probably printed in the advertising department even before the trailer models go into production for a given year. For example the 2015 brochure says my 2015 246RKS is:

• 4,310 lbs shipping weight (dry) excluding any options
• 500 lbs hitch weight (tongue weight?)
• 2,321 lbs carrying capacity

The actual sticker on my trailer, which also has my specific VIN on it says:

• 4,793 lbs dry weight
• tongue weight not given
• 2,165 lbs carrying capacity

On mine that's 2 pounds shy of the 7,000 pounds the two 3,500 lb axles are rated for (excluding any weight carried by the hitch & tow vehicle).

[babock]

Originally Posted by dward51

On mine that's 2 pounds shy of the 7,000 pounds the two 3,500 lb axles are rated for (excluding any weight carried by the hitch & tow vehicle).

As you said, you need to subtract the tongue weight which is considerable.

Also, if you are really carrying 2165 lbs, you need to reduce that. Personally, I think its crazy trying to find more storage space in a light weight trailer. Our storage is half empty because we are very conscious of weight. Less weight you carry, easier on it's suspension, frame and tires.