New Unit Sawdust on Bed

[Terier]

I took dustman stx comment as meaning that even with extra effort it would be next to impossible to get all of the saw dust out. Even with cleaning before departing I still see a bit of saw dust after traveling and my TT is 5 years old.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Oaklevel

75% ?? really where did that number come from?? I really doubt that, maybe 10% our dealer sees very few campers come back for major issues.

I think it came from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUK6zjtUj00

[Oaklevel]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

I think it came from here:

I think you're right...

[rockfordroo]

Just found this on the RV Sandpiper site:

A HIGHER STANDARD OF MANUFACTURING

At Forest River we understand that the quality and dependability of our products is of the utmost importance. That is why random units from each of our brands are subjected to rigorous testing at our 20,000 square foot pre-delivery inspection (PDI) building on top of the inspections that all units undergo as they are being built. Units selected to go through PDI are checked for issues in electrical, plumbing, LP system, function, cosmetic, codes and standards, rain bay, and other miscellaneous tests. This process provides our plants daily feedback to ensure every unit being built meets the high quality standards.

I guess Mr. H's Roo didn't make it to the PDI building!

[Oaklevel]

Really

[Wolverine 1945]

Originally Posted by jeffrapp

Note once again the dismissive reply of one of the "regulars" to a genuine concern.
Instead of comparing RV's to houses, a better comparison would be to cruising boats, another form of travelling "house" subjected to even more stresses, with which I have had a lot of experience. No cruising boat manufacturer "worth his salt" (pun intended) could survive producing such poorly manufactured products. Perhaps if buyers would speak up more often, or simply not buy until quality improved, there would be less of this.
Look carefully at the quote above. It says "even if they wanted to", implying that they don't want to.

Jeff you state we should not buy until the quality improves,,,
Guess then we are stuck with what we have,,, even if is only a tent !!!
LOL !!!
In order to improve quality,,, the line must be slowed down,,, and better quality material must be used,,, maybe less crap from China ???

I will say this,,, I do believe RV's are higher quality than most Manufactured Homes !!!

[Kenny kustom]

We already will drive halfway across the country, just to save a few grand.

Are we prepared to pay $5k more, just for better quality?
No. You won't. It's proven every day.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[Evereddie]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

We already will drive halfway across the country, just to save a few grand.

Are we prepared to pay $5k more, just for better quality?
No. You won't. It's proven every day.

If the lower price/lower quality units were never made you would pay the 5,000. more price because you never would have known the difference. You would never have been exposed to the lower price. The manufacturers have lowered the bar and we, unfortunately, have accepted it.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Just found this on the RV Sandpiper site:

A HIGHER STANDARD OF MANUFACTURING

At Forest River we understand that the quality and dependability of our products is of the utmost importance. That is why random units from each of our brands are subjected to rigorous testing at our 20,000 square foot pre-delivery inspection (PDI) building on top of the inspections that all units undergo as they are being built. Units selected to go through PDI are checked for issues in electrical, plumbing, LP system, function, cosmetic, codes and standards, rain bay, and other miscellaneous tests. This process provides our plants daily feedback to ensure every unit being built meets the high quality standards.

I guess Mr. H's Roo didn't make it to the PDI building!

20,000 sq ft, that's not a very big PDI/QC building which supposedly is for every F.R. division. The two key words in that paragraph are "random" and "selected". I would like to know the percentage of units that are manufactured that end up in that place. Probably less than 1 of a 100.

I also take issue with "on top of the inspections that all units undergo as they are being built" I think that means glancing over at the line to see if the unit has tires on it before you drag it out the factory door

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Evereddie

If the lower price/lower quality units were never made you would pay the 5,000. more price because you never would have known the difference. You would never have been exposed to the lower price. The manufacturers have lowered the bar and we, unfortunately, have accepted it.

We haven't accepted it, we have demanded it. Company A produces a camper that sells for $25K. It has a Barker tongue jack and BAL leveling jacks, rides on a custom frame built just for that camper and has oversized and overrated tires and axles. The best workers were hired at $25 per hour and each camper is assigned a supervising tech to over see the build from start to finish. Company B builds it faster, uses Chinese tires, pays their workers $10 an hour and has only a few supervisors overseeing the entire plant whose primary job is to speed up the assembly process. They sell their camper for $20K and are making double the profit at that price point. Guess which camper 99% of people would buy? So whose fault is it again????

[Wolverine 1945]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

We haven't accepted it, we have demanded it. Company A produces a camper that sells for $25K. It has a Barker tongue jack and BAL leveling jacks, rides on a custom frame built just for that camper and has oversized and overrated tires and axles. The best workers were hired at $25 per hour and each camper is assigned a supervising tech to over see the build from start to finish. Company B builds it faster, uses Chinese tires, pays their workers $10 an hour and has only a few supervisors overseeing the entire plant whose primary job is to speed up the assembly process. They sell their camper for $20K and are making double the profit at that price point. Guess which camper 99% of people would buy? So whose fault is it again????

If I knew that 5K would guaranty me a High Quality unit,,, that did no have to be returned to the dealer or factory several times,,, and would last for years,,,
I would be very interested !!! It would cost less in the long run !!!
No one saves any money buying a new unit every 3 or 4 years !!!

[Kenny kustom]

Originally Posted by Wolverine 1945

If I knew that 5K would guaranty me a High Quality unit,,, that did no have to be returned to the dealer or factory several times,,, and would last for years,,,
I would be very interested !!! It would cost less in the long run !!!
No one saves any money buying a new unit every 3 or 4 years !!!

Do we buy that new unit every 4 years because it's broken?

Or is it because we like the new plans, gadgets, etc?


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Wolverine 1945

If I knew that 5K would guaranty me a High Quality unit,,, that did no have to be returned to the dealer or factory several times,,, and would last for years,,,
I would be very interested !!! It would cost less in the long run !!!
No one saves any money buying a new unit every 3 or 4 years !!!

I don't think most people would when it comes right down to signing on the dotted line. I think that as large as the RV industry is, they have a good idea what customers are willing to pay for and what they aren't. We tend to pay for features and looks. I guess another way to put it is that for the same money as the slowly and methodically built unit, I can get one like is offered today with solid surface counter tops, aluminum wheels, 2 flat screen TVs, power awning, stab jacks and tongue jack and all kinds of fluff. That fluff looks great and offers much more appeal to the average consumer than taking extra time to make sure all walls are 100% perfectly square, etc.

[dustman_stx]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

Do we buy that new unit every 4 years because it's broken?

Or is it because we like the new plans, gadgets, etc?


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

We're on our 4th since Fall 2011. I like trying new floor plans and just getting something new. It's some form of addiction, I'm sure.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

We haven't accepted it, we have demanded it. Company A produces a camper that sells for $25K. It has a Barker tongue jack and BAL leveling jacks, rides on a custom frame built just for that camper and has oversized and overrated tires and axles. The best workers were hired at $25 per hour and each camper is assigned a supervising tech to over see the build from start to finish. Company B builds it faster, uses Chinese tires, pays their workers $10 an hour and has only a few supervisors overseeing the entire plant whose primary job is to speed up the assembly process. They sell their camper for $20K and are making double the profit at that price point. Guess which camper 99% of people would buy? So whose fault is it again????

Who is company A and do they make a 2 bunk 23' hybrid. I might need to give them a call. You're 100% spot on.

[doc73]

Unfortunately we live in a Walmart world where we just throw away the junk and keep buying instead of buying quality from the get go.. We might want quality on here, but in reality we are just a SMALL part of the rv community. I would bet the average buyer is just looking at one thing.. How much it will cost per month to pay in a 15 year loan. Not how well the cabinets are put together or the terrible tires.. Because they just do not know better and buy,so the makers cater right to them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by doc73

Unfortunately we live in a Walmart world where we just throw away the junk and keep buying instead of buying quality from the get go.. We might want quality on here, but in reality we are just a SMALL part of the rv community. I would bet the average buyer is just looking at one thing.. How much it will cost per month to pay in a 15 year loan. Not how well the cabinets are put together or the terrible tires.. Because they just do not know better and buy,so the makers cater right to them.

You win that bet.


Those are the people who about 2 minutes after the warranty expires realize what they own, notice how its already falling apart because is was to begin with, and they performed no PM whatsoever. Then the reality sets in that they still have another 9 years of payments ahead of them on a 16K trailer????? By that point the only way out is to tote their upside down self down to the dealer and trade it in for a huge loss. Then the dealer can sell another new one, and sell the old one for top dollar to the next unsuspecting poor sucker. Manufacturer made $'s, dealer made $'s, bank made $'s, dealer is going to make $'s again twice over.

What a system.

[doc73]

You would be correct.. Everyone wins... But us!

But your logic is the same even in the car world.. Lets face it, how many of us get to the end of the payments, lease or warranty and immediate buy a new car.

[jeffrapp]

Originally Posted by dustman_stx

You're attempting to put words in my mouth. Down here in the South, when we say "even if I wanted to I couldn't", we are simply saying it's not possible. Would you want to spend money chasing an impossible goal? It would be like washing your car in the rain. Manufacturers don't stay in business spending resources on an "exercise in futility.

Dustman, Having lived in the South for many years, I should have known. Sorry.
It seems pretty obvious from this thread, and so many others, that quality control and manufacturing standards in much of the RV industry is pretty poor. It seems that the problem is not that it's impossible to put out a better product, as you imply, it's just that the manufacturers don't want to spend money on quality when they can sell an inferior product. As long as we're willing to buy junk, they are happy to sell it.
Since this forum is supposedly for the benefit of Forest River owners (and presumably prospective owners), the most honest advice anybody could give is simply the above. Too many times, experienced posters seem like apologists for the RV industry.
Since you are a Southerner, you will understand what I mean when I say about RV manufacturers "bless their little hearts."
BTW, I happen to be very satisfied with my Prism 24G, so this isn't such a personal issue with me.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by Kenny kustom

We already will drive halfway across the country, just to save a few grand.

Are we prepared to pay $5k more, just for better quality?
No. You won't. It's proven every day.


2016 Sabre 36QBOK
2015 Ram 3500 CUMMINS

Well that's a common false argument . the cost should not rise a penny for some quality control , drilling clean holes , running wires in an orderly fashion, cleaning up loose screws , taking the time to do the job right . the manufactures spends thousands more doing warranty repair they wouldn't have to if they just did it right at the factory .

now i can see costing more for quality appliances and electronics etc instead of all the cheapest china poop out there