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Old 06-12-2018, 02:08 AM   #1
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Towing an Apex Nano 193BHS

Just curious what kind of tow vehicle and hitch people are using to tow their Apex Nano 193BHS around.
I have a 2014 GMC Acadia with a 5,200 lb tow capacity and 600 lb hitch weight limit so on paper at least it seems like it could handle the Apex Nano 193BHS.

I've seen a number of posts of people with a setup similar to this having success but I've also seen a lot of posts by people saying to tow a TT in that class (3,500 lb dry, 4,700 GVWR) you basically need a truck or a true full size SUV like a Tahoe.

Looking to hear from owners of this particular model about how it tows and what they are towing it with.
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Old 06-12-2018, 05:08 PM   #2
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You are always going to have the weight police around to tell you what to do. The simple matter is that your trailer has a 4,600 GVWR, and a 500-600 tongue weight. You need a vehicle that can handle that which your Acadia will handle. Plus you have an additional 600lbs of gear and passengers to load in your Acadia before you're overweight.

Simple as that. You don't need a full size SUV or Pickup to pull it.

We own the 193BHS. I visited the scales and fully loaded it weighs 4,000 lbs.
We tow with a 2011 Honda Pilot that has a 5,000 lb. capacity.

It pulls like a dream. With that little V6, we can maintain speed even up mountain passes in the PNW.

There are a lot of people that will shout about "never load your vehicle more that 70-80% of your rated capacity" and whatnot. But I figure the engineers of my Honda have already built that in and have it accounted for. So I'm fine with it.
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:19 PM   #3
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Hi kfergiez
Thanks for replying, you seem like a wealth of knowledge on this trailer.

3 follow up questions:
How does it do going up and over I90 and the cascades to eastern Washington?
Where and how do you go to get everything weighed?
What kind of hitch do you use?

I’m trying to be extra cautious because I see a lot of posts about how people tried it for a season, decided they didn’t feel comfortable towing with their suv and traded it in for a truck etc. I’d like to avoid that outcome because personally, if that’s what I ultimately have to do I’d rather just spend that same money on an RV instead. Obviously optimal (and cheapest) outcome is we’re happy towing the 193BHS with our Acadia.
We’re going to trying renting a UHaul 8x5 trailer for our next camping trip in 2 weeks to see how that goes since we’re towing newbies. On our last trip we needed every cubic inch of space in the Acadia plus a top cargo box, it’s amazing how much stuff we bring along (stroller, bikes, etc) with young kids, I remember when just my wife and I used to go camping in a small civic. I'm interested in weighing that setup because while it's packed to the gills, I feel like a lot of that stuff like the pillows and blankets and sleeping bags take up a lot of room but aren't actually that heavy.

Thanks again for your help.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:35 PM   #4
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Up and over I-90 is okay actually. While I could stand to have more power going over the pass, I can actually maintain 60 (granted it's in a low gear and higher RPMs but that little Honda does great). It's not necessarily the weight that bogs us down but the fact we're towing something as aerodynamic as a tall brick. THAT'S what kills you. We get about 9-10 mpg.

Ernie's Truck stop in Federal Way is where I got everything weighed. They are really good about taking multiple weighs if they aren't busy (they usually aren't). I weighed my trailer axle, tongue, and my Honda axles with and without our WDH just to get EVERY single number. We're all within spec.

We use an EAZ-800 WDH. It's amazing how it levels the car and makes the ride so much smoother.

We used to be in the same boat with car camping in tents with the kids. We'd take SO much stuff and just pack the rig full. The trailer does have a lot of room and with the refrigerator, we don't even bother with a cooler anymore. The bedding just stays in the trailer, along with all the other camping gear like chairs, charcoal and roasting sticks. Really what's left is clothes, which we stow in the trailer, and bikes. I installed a frame mounted receiver hitch on the back of the trailer so we can have bikes on the back of it. Now the back of the car is dang near empty.

As far as a pickup goes, you need something that you're comfortable with. We've had the Pilot for years and have put it through a lot and it always surprises us with what it can handle. I'm completely comfortable towing with it. A pickup is going to handle towing that trailer better than an SUV. That's just a fact of life, so it really boils down to what you want in a tow vehicle, and what you're comfortable with. (Also make sure your Acadia has a tow package from the factory, they usually include a transmission cooler)

If you're towing newbies, just take things easy and REALLY practice giving yourself a lot of room to pass, turn, and most importantly brake. You need an electric brake controller... This is a non-negotiable item. When you get one, spend some money on it and buy a good quality controller. Most everybody on this forum along with myself recommend the Tekonsha P3. It's pricey, but worth it's weight in gold.

Lastly, practice backing up a trailer. A long trailer is super easy to backup, a short trailer is harder. The Apex 193BHS is pretty easy to maneuver, but I've had years of practice with trailers.

Anyway. If you're in the Puyallup area, send me a PM and I'd be happy to show you our setup.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:05 PM   #5
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Up and over I-90 is okay actually. While I could stand to have more power going over the pass, I can actually maintain 60 (granted it's in a low gear and higher RPMs but that little Honda does great).
About what RPMs are you at when towing? In my Highlander I do about 1,500 to 2,000 RPMs in normal driving. On my first trip pulling my E-Pro 19FDS, I was about 3,000 on the interstate. Is this normal?

John
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:54 PM   #6
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About what RPMs are you at when towing? In my Highlander I do about 1,500 to 2,000 RPMs in normal driving. On my first trip pulling my E-Pro 19FDS, I was about 3,000 on the interstate. Is this normal?

John
100% normal.

When you are driving on flat roads with no load your Highlander is cruising in overdrive. This means nice low RPMs.

When towing, you really only see those lower RPMs when cruising at lower speed or going downhill. When youíre at highway speed, youíve got increased load, and youíre pushing a brick through wind and that will kick you down into a lower gear to maintain speed.

3,000 RPMs is just fine. Going up passes, and having my rig drop down into 2nd (albeit briefly) itíll climb up to 5000.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:17 AM   #7
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100% normal.

...3,000 RPMs is just fine. Going up passes, and having my rig drop down into 2nd (albeit briefly) itíll climb up to 5000.
Thanks for your answer. I knew my RPMs should go up but I wasn't sure by how much.

I don't want to harassed by the weight police by them telling me I need a Ford F-350 for my 3,000 lb. TT.

John
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:07 AM   #8
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I also have the 193BHS and this is my 2nd year with the camper. I live in the U.P. of Michigan so have hills, but nothing like out west.
Last year I towed it with a 2008 Honda Ridgeline. I felt it towed it ok, but was at my max regarding cargo carrying capacity. I did feel like the camper did control the experience though.
I have a E2 Trunnion 600/6000lb sway/wd hitch.
Last fall my Ridgeline was getting to where it needed tires and struts, and a timing belt change (almost 100k miles). I drove by the local Toyota dealer and seen a 2013 Tundra DC 5.7l with 15k miles on it. The numbers came together and I purchased it.
Last weekend was our first trip camping and the towing experience was night and day. I got around the same MPG of 10, but wasn't burning premium fuel (Honda recommends for towing) so cost per mile was less.
Next I will need a bigger camper in this cycle
If you have any questions regarding the camper feel free to reach out (or anyone else). I have made several mods to it and it's just about how I want it. Just need to figure out how to get a extra axle under it!
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:39 PM   #9
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We own the 193BHS. I visited the scales and fully loaded it weighs 4,000 lbs.
We tow with a 2011 Honda Pilot that has a 5,000 lb. capacity.
The 2011 Pilot has a 4,500LB tow capacity if AWD, 3,500LB if FWD. The rating shown on the hitch itself is the rating of the hitch and not the rating of the vehicle.

Since your trailer scales at 4,000LB you're theoretically under the max tow rating if your Pilot is AWD, but you'll run out of payload capacity before you hit the max tow rating. But, as long as the Pilot was under both GAWRs and GVWR when the trailer was hooked up you should be fine.

Just wanted to point that out since a lot of people only look at max tow rating (or mistakenly think the hitch rating is the tow rating) and end up being overweight as a result.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:05 PM   #10
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The 2011 Pilot has a 4,500LB tow capacity if AWD, 3,500LB if FWD. The rating shown on the hitch itself is the rating of the hitch and not the rating of the vehicle.

Since your trailer scales at 4,000LB you're theoretically under the max tow rating if your Pilot is AWD, but you'll run out of payload capacity before you hit the max tow rating. But, as long as the Pilot was under both GAWRs and GVWR when the trailer was hooked up you should be fine.

Just wanted to point that out since a lot of people only look at max tow rating (or mistakenly think the hitch rating is the tow rating) and end up being overweight as a result.
Thanks, but I was giving info to the OP, Iím not he OP!
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:17 PM   #11
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Thanks, but I was giving info to the OP, Iím not he OP!
I know you're not the OP, I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to your post that misstated your Pilot's max tow rating since it appeared you weren't aware of the actual max tow rating.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:36 PM   #12
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I know you're not the OP, I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to your post that misstated your Pilot's max tow rating since it appeared you weren't aware of the actual max tow rating.
OOOOOHHHH.

Got It. Thank you. Yes, my Honda's max tow rating is 4,500 lbs, sorry for being inaccurate. When I get into these discussions it's just easier to round.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:58 PM   #13
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OOOOOHHHH.

Got It. Thank you. Yes, my Honda's max tow rating is 4,500 lbs, sorry for being inaccurate. When I get into these discussions it's just easier to round.
No worries, with how many people try and justify towing overweight or don't even realize they're overweight I just wanted to make sure it was clarified. My wife has a 2012 Pilot AWD that we tow some stuff with and she loves the Pilot. Bought new and now has around 110k miles on it, most reliable vehicle we've owned and she'd only be interested in getting rid of it to get another one. Tow ratings were important for what we tow with it as we found a wide range of tow ratings for mid-size crossover SUVs, from 1,500LB up to 7,500LB depending on vehicle. Never towed a travel trailer with it, though. We always used a vehicle with a much higher tow/payload capacity for that.

Glad to hear the Pilot is working out well for you!
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Old 06-14-2018, 05:24 PM   #14
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Hi all,

We're getting our 191 RBS (Summit Edition) in a couple of weeks and have been looking at a tow vehicle. Currently we have a 2014 Ford Edge (3.5 V6) we were looking at a used Explorer then I realized the engine is pretty much the same as the Edge, well the HP & Torque are almost identical. The Explorer is rated at 5,000lbs and I have a brand new Husky WDH.

On paper the Explorer should be ok but I'm concerned that although the weight should be fine with the frontal area of the 191 will cause it to struggle. We looked at a pickup truck but that seemed a little excessive.

Does anyone tow anything similar with an Explorer? I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

We're looking at something a little older as both my wife & I have newer vehicles and this will primarily be our weekend camping vehicle lol.

Regards

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Old 06-14-2018, 08:09 PM   #15
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From the little research I've done, the Ford expedition with tow package seems the the best SUV for towing.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:17 PM   #16
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From the little research I've done, the Ford expedition with tow package seems the the best SUV for towing.
If absolute max tow capacity is what you're looking at then you're probably right, the current Expedition can tow up to 9,300LB.

Chevy Tahoe up to 8,600LB

The GMC Yukon can tow up to 8,500LB. The Yukon XL up to 8,300LB.

The Dodge Durango SRT up to 8,700LB.

Nissan Armada up to 8,500LB

Plus sister/cousin models of those. That's 6+ SUVs with a 1,000LB difference between lowest and highest max tow ratings. There are a number of options out there, but that 3.5EB in the Expedition is hard to beat for a gas engine used for towing.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:58 PM   #17
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Hi all,

We're getting our 191 RBS (Summit Edition) in a couple of weeks and have been looking at a tow vehicle. Currently we have a 2014 Ford Edge (3.5 V6) we were looking at a used Explorer then I realized the engine is pretty much the same as the Edge, well the HP & Torque are almost identical. The Explorer is rated at 5,000lbs and I have a brand new Husky WDH.

On paper the Explorer should be ok but I'm concerned that although the weight should be fine with the frontal area of the 191 will cause it to struggle. We looked at a pickup truck but that seemed a little excessive.

Does anyone tow anything similar with an Explorer? I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

We're looking at something a little older as both my wife & I have newer vehicles and this will primarily be our weekend camping vehicle lol.

Regards

Richard
Right now I am towing with a 2008 Explorer 4dr 4x4 XLT V6 with factory tow package. Husky Centerline WDH. So far, so good in the hills of PA. A little weak towing uphill. Rated at 5225 GTWR. My Wolf Pup 16BHS is listed at 3097 UVW, 3877 GTWR, box is 18', overall length 21'5". The frontal area is about 20% over that recommended by Ford. You can download older Ford towing guides via the various Ford forums. Haven't actually weighed the rig yet.
I would not consider using an Explorer without the factory towing gears. My previous 2dr 2000 Explorer 4x4 XLT did not have towing gears and my daughter also had one with towing gears, both bought used. Night and day difference going up the long hills around here.
Sold my 1998 Ford Expedition EB 5.4L V8 with towing package in 2016. I really miss the towing capacity but it rotted away on me on PA salt.
All that said, the Explorer is my daily driver bought new. For an extra (3rd) vehicle, a pickup truck probably makes more sense. A more powerful engine, and usefull for other things.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:24 PM   #18
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Right now I am towing with a 2008 Explorer 4dr 4x4 XLT V6 with factory tow package. Husky Centerline WDH. So far, so good in the hills of PA. A little weak towing uphill. Rated at 5225 GTWR. My Wolf Pup 16BHS is listed at 3097 UVW, 3877 GTWR, box is 18', overall length 21'5". The frontal area is about 20% over that recommended by Ford. You can download older Ford towing guides via the various Ford forums. Haven't actually weighed the rig yet.
I would not consider using an Explorer without the factory towing gears. My previous 2dr 2000 Explorer 4x4 XLT did not have towing gears and my daughter also had one with towing gears, both bought used. Night and day difference going up the long hills around here.
Sold my 1998 Ford Expedition EB 5.4L V8 with towing package in 2016. I really miss the towing capacity but it rotted away on me on PA salt.
All that said, the Explorer is my daily driver bought new. For an extra (3rd) vehicle, a pickup truck probably makes more sense. A more powerful engine, and usefull for other things.
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. I do really like the Explorer but I have a feeling I'll always be close to the limit. There are a few Expedition's for sale at pretty decent prices. With the price of gas here in Canada no one wants them lol

I'm going to go take a look at a few on the weekend as well as some pickups. You're right as a 3rd vehicle a pickup will be quite useful. I quite miss our old venture van
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:55 AM   #19
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Thanks for your answer. I knew my RPMs should go up but I wasn't sure by how much.

I don't want to harassed by the weight police by them telling me I need a Ford F-350 for my 3,000 lb. TT.

John
I think you can get by with an F-250, as long as you get the Powerstroke.
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Old 06-16-2018, 08:04 AM   #20
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I think you can get by with an F-250, as long as you get the Powerstroke.
I'll consider that as a compromise.
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