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Old 03-20-2012, 08:03 PM   #1
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Question Palimino puma unleashed 25-TFQ opinions/help

hello, i am newto this forum/and toy haulers. I am looking at the 2012 25-TFQ and i can not find any reviews good or bad about puma unleashed in general. a dealer[who doesnt sell palimino at all] said to stay away, due to bad craftsmanship. I will be using it fairly often, we go out once or twice a month and carry 2 large atv's,and one small atv. average distance is 300 to 500 miles round trip. so i guess what i am asking is if anyone has a similar model and any pros/cons? i have looked at so many haulers i am ready to get one already,Any help is appreciated
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:55 PM   #2
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If it has a Lippert frame under it, I would be very cautious. The Lippert frames don't have a sterling reputation. I have a Lippert frame under my Puma 27 FQ. It's a straight pull not a 5th wheel and I had a cracked cross member. Not good and I've seen many complaints about Lippert frames cracking under the 5th wheel pulls.

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Old 03-20-2012, 09:04 PM   #3
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We have a Puma and have not had a single problem with it. And from what I've read on here, people have more problems with the more expensive brands.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hob View Post
If it has a Lippert frame under it, I would be very cautious.
If they shouldn't buy any camper with a Lippert fame, that will eliminate about 90% of the campers built. What should they buy?

I sympathize with the problems you had on the frame of your camper, but the problems you read about on these forums regarding Lippert frames are a small percentage of the frames produced. They're subject to workmanship problems same as every manufacturer. If you're not happy with the frame design, Palomino makes the frame specifications, not Lippert. They just produce to the spec.

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Old 03-20-2012, 09:52 PM   #5
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Dave_Monica,
If what you said is how it really is, why does everyone deny the problem is theirs? Anxiously awating your answer.

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Old 03-20-2012, 10:56 PM   #6
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Dave_Monica,
If what you said is how it really is, why does everyone deny the problem is theirs? Anxiously awating your answer.

Regards,
I'm not defending Lippert or the RV manufacturers...either could be at fault. IMHO, Lippert isn't solely responsible for all frame/structure defects as you seem to indicate. The design and specifications are big factors too, which I can't believe that Lippert would have full responsibility for.

Again, my opinion...but then then again, opinions are like you know what...everyone has one.

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Old 03-20-2012, 11:22 PM   #7
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"I'm not defending Lippert or the RV manufacturers...either could be at fault. IMHO, Lippert isn't solely responsible for all frame/structure defects as you seem to indicate. The design and specifications are big factors too, which I can't believe that Lippert would have full responsibility for." Quote your reply.

Until someone makes enough noise, things are going to run along status quo. One of the companies, Forest River or Lippert is going to get tired of seeing their name in print not attached to making reliable equipment and do something to correct it. Right now, they have lost making a sale to me because of my frame and all the other complaints I have read about them. As of today, both of them are saying, "I'm not the regular crew chief so it isn't my problem." Somebody needs to own up to it being their problem and do something about it.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Every chance I get I'll say something about the problems with the paper thin frames.

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Old 03-21-2012, 08:26 PM   #8
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no trouble with my 2011 puma unleashed 5 wheel.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:40 AM   #9
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Lippert Trailers
I did a little research on the Lippert frame cracking and have not founnd enough information to indicate if there are any problems beyond ancedotal reports. That does not mean there aren't problems, just that I cannot find some indications of statistically significant problems.

What is clear is the Lippert builds one heck of lot of trailer frames in a year. With a large number of frames, comes a certain number of failures or problems. So unless the number of failures becomes quite large, the per capita failure rate is impossible to tell using forum reports. Forum reports are just too imprecise to determine what the actual failure rate is.

Going further, Lippert did develop a notice on how to fix the frames. However, this was just how to fix the frames, not a recall notice. Near as I can tell, the notice, what Lippert calls a "LIP", was issued in 2009.

One would think that if Lippert issued this notice, they had, at the very least, received a number of reports about problems in the axle areas of their frames. Further, it would also be expected that if there were any identified deficiencies, especially since the earliest I found was maybe 2005, you would expect that work practices would have been changed.

One other issue not addressed in the forums, is that Lippert builds either a majority or the largest plurality of trailer frames. Even if Lippert has reported problems it is unknown whether other manufacturers are having more, the same, or less problems than Lippert. Further since these other manufacturers' market presence is smaller, reports of their problems may have not worked their way up to where the public is aware of any problems.

From the 20,000 foot view, IT COULD BE that there may be issues with the Lippert frames, however it is unknown whether Lippert is worse/better or like other trailer manufacturers. You also have to ask yourself they must be doing something right if they are as big as they are.

Puma Unleashed 27SBU.
I like mine. Internal storage is not what I think it should be and there is no ceiling to floor storage cabinets. I am not sure, but I think the power main cable to the breaker panel may be undersized. I also don't like that Puma does not put any 12 volt outlets in the trailer, but there are adequate a/c outlets.

The Concertone entertainment system I loathe. It works, but the radio is really, really lousy. Oh, did I mention that the radio is lousy? I have not a clue about who figured out the programming tree in the Concertone, but I have given up trying to figure out how to program it. It plays DVDs OK, and the one thing it does very well is detect IR from the remote; it gets four stars on that one aspect.

The other problem is how the Concertone is wired. I am sure in the 25 if you have a master bedroom, but the Concertone lacks a video distribution system. You can watch digital TV, but if you want to watch DVD or satellite, no can do. Puma does not drag video or audio to the bedroom TV.

Puma thinks the fact that they have speakers in the bedroom is enough. My pardette does not want the speakers on when she is asleep. If they the audio running to the TV, I could use headphones. Because of the way they wire the Concertone, that is not an easy thing to fix.

But that is hardly unique to Puma either. It may be something you can get fixed if you are buying new.

The shades could better, but they are no worse than anyone elses'. Beds are good, appliances OK, bathroom nice (though a shower only would be better in my opinion).

The fuel station is a little slow, but is OK. It lacks a fuel filter and if there is garbage in the tank it will jam the pump. That happened to me, so reversed the wiring which cleared the jam and the pump works. I test the pump monthly.

The also have a genset bay on the Puma. Unfortunately it is big enough for the Onan, but not for the Hondas. It is also next to the master bed. Since I have the Hondas, that is a non-issue. Still if I had the onboard generator with remote start, I could crank that up before I get to the rest stop.

I like mine, I have seen units like mine hauling 2 or 3 quads 3 or 4 years old and they look fine. I have no problem recommending one to anyone.

If I had to do over again, I think I would have bought the 5th wheel version without the slideouts. I would probably get the same diesel mileage and a better master bedroom.

BTW, as far as they guy who does not sell them...maybe he can't get them.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:01 PM   #10
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Quote:
...toy haulers...2012 25-TFQ and I cannot find any reviews good or bad about puma unleashed in general...
I guess I did not really answer your questions very well but commented more about other issues.

I am sure if a Work or Play would be better unit. The pardette and I got a toy hauler to haul our gun cart and to have porch. Our gun cart is a converted baby jogging stroller (most are) and a lot lighter than your ATVs.

A couple of months ago, I saw one 27SBU that was a couple of years old. According to its owner he was always hauling 2 or 3 quads 500 miles about every other month. He also made a long trip of over 2,000 miles once a year. He had no complaints about Unleashed, and no intention of selling anytime soon.

It was not the only one I had seen, but it was one that was being worked the way you intend to work yours. It does not seem that workmanship is a problem. Still there is nothing impressive about Unleashed workmanship either.

Work & Play vs Unleashed: Work & Plays are closer to the ground than the Unleashed; just something to consider. I find the WPs are much more austere that the Unleashed. WPs like to go with that workshop look, minimize window space, and allow owners to more personalize their WP. They are stout and I would describe them more of guy's kind of rig.

Unleashed are quite a bit less austere. Looking at the 25's floorplan, you almost have a master bedroom. The downside is that whoever is sleeping towards the bow, is going to have to crawl over you to get up.

The interior is much nicer and after a hard day's riding you are going to enjoy have a nice place to crash in. I like the tan interiors and what immediately attracted my pardette to it. The Unleashed is the kind of rig to get if you are going to bring your pardette with you.

The 25 has an outdoor kitchen. I never have liked that configuration because I don't want to loose that interior room. Still most of the RVs I see today have outdoor kitchens. The sales people said 2 years ago those kitchens were not popular and hard to sell. Now you just about can't sell a unit without one.

The other nice thing is you avoid slideouts. Slideouts are quite nice, but I do not want one giving me trouble while I am traveling. I had one friend who had a blow out that destroyed the slideout controller. He has great difficulty getting everything locked down for the trip to the repair shop.
Quote:
...a dealer[who doesnt sell palimino at all] said to stay away...
The dealer at Dixie RV could not get enough. They seem to regard these as more their low end, but you would have to tack on another $10K+ to get a better one.

I really like their 5th wheel version, but the model down from the one that has the slideout. Because the 5ver uses different materials it is almost the same weight as the SBU, and almost the same frontal area. That at least suggests it would have the same fuel economy but a larger interior.
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