Adding light to electric water heater

[RogerWo]

2016 Fury toy hauler. Water pump switch, tank indicators and water heater switch's are located in corner of bath above sink. The electric switch for the water heater is not lighted, so it's very easy to forget about it and leave it on. Want to add an indicator light to remind that the electric heater is on. When I went to an R V dealer to ask about a light or a lighted switch that I could install, they advised against adding or changing anything in this circuit since everything is controlled via a circuit board. Surely there must be some way to add a light into this circuit without messing it up. Hopefully someone has faced this issue before and solved it. Would appreciate any advise as to what I can do. Thanks

[formerFR]

a quick question before you dive into changing anything.... are you concerned that the heater is somehow ON when you are not plugged into shore power?

typically, no electric water heater or switch is going to be powered other than when plugged in, or on generator. So, while you are traveling, or on an inverter, if you have one, it is not receiving any power, so leaving it 'on' hurts nothing. This is probably also why they saw no 'need' to have it lighted.

now, if you are concerned that leaving it ON when your tank is drained might do damage, then that would still only apply IF you are plugged in, such as during storage or the winter months.

[RogerWo]

My only concern is that I prefer not to leave the heater on when it will not be used. Adding an indicator light or switch would certainly go a long way to solving this. All previous trailers had this feature.

[formerFR]

mine doesn't, as unless you are plugged in or on generator, it's not powered anyway

[Kaadk]

On both of mine, (Suburban) the electric switch has been on the outside, so a light really doesn't help. The switch on the inside for WH on propane has been lit.

I just leave mine on from spring fill up to winter draining. Since it's right next to the anode that I have to pull to drain the tank, it's easy to remember to turn it off first. (Even though it's also on the checklist.)

[Bama Rambler]

Which water heater do you have?

Does the switch you want to have lighted have both positive and negative, or hot and neutral, wires ran through or near it? If it has both + & - wires ran in the near vicinity of it you can easily swap out the non-illuminated switch with an illuminated one.

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

Which water heater do you have?

Does the switch you want to have lighted have both positive and negative, or hot and neutral, wires ran through or near it? If it has both + & - wires ran in the near vicinity of it you can easily swap out the non-illuminated switch with an illuminated one.

from the switch designs that i have seen for water heaters and the wiring diagrams, they are only switching the hot lead. it therefore only has two posts on the back of the switch, one in, one out. the lighted switch has three. that being said, if this switch is mounted next to a lighted tank monitor panel, there should be a ground lead in that mess somewhere that *could* be tapped into if they are in the same wall cavity.

[RogerWo]

The heater is Atwood GC6AA-10E. The switch is the dual Atwood switch with propane switch on right, default propane light in center and electric heater switch on left. So there are several connections available. If I could get a dual Atwood switch with the electric side lighted, I would change it out. I have not yet been able to find such a switch. Maybe I haven't looked far enough yet. I am also of the opinion that this should be a simple change out or even easy to add a small LED. Not so according to the people at the dealership. Their claim is that even adding or changing this circuit slightly could cause the circuit board/computer to fault. Seems like this is a case of over engineering if that's possible. I know some people have retrofitted small LED's without any problems, but this was on rv's 6 to 8 year's older. I am really reluctant to take a chance on this if it would be possible I'LL have to replace a circuit board. Thanks.

[Bama Rambler]

Your dealer is full of it.

If you look at the schematic they feed straight +12 volt power to both switches and pass that to the control board. So there's no way that adding a LED light is going to hurt anything. They also feed -12 volt DC back to the remote switch panel so using that would be easy.

According to the wiring diagram and switch description the middle light is a 'Remote Lockout Lamp". According to the manual the 'lockout' only lights when there's a lockout situation on the gas side of the heater.

Having said that, it would be easy to add a couple of LEDs to the switch plate to indicate when the switches are on. The -12 volt power is already at the switch and all you'd need is a couple of small 12 volt LEDs. Just wire the positive side of them to each outlet side of each switch and then tie the negative side of the LEDs ot the -12v at the existing lockout light.

[RogerWo]

I agree with you. I looked at the schematic and came to the same conclusion. Thought there may be something that I had missed. I am going to order the LED's today. Thanks for verifying what I believed all along. The dealership I visited with was not a F.R. dealer, but I can't imagine that the water heater installs vary much between the manufacturers. Thanks again.

[wcrafter]

Your switch on the wall only works when it has 110 power. So just go to Lowes or Home Depot they sell switches with light in them just change it out.

[Bama Rambler]

Originally Posted by wcrafter

Your switch on the wall only works when it has 110 power. So just go to Lowes or Home Depot they sell switches with light in them just change it out.

Those Atwood switches doesn't have any 120 vac in them at all. They use strictly 12 vdc. Take a look at the schematic for that switch sometime and you'll see what I mean.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by wcrafter

Your switch on the wall only works when it has 110 power. So just go to Lowes or Home Depot they sell switches with light in them just change it out.

The switch closes a 12v circult (at the switch) which activates a relay at the heater which closes the 120 volt circuit.

Larry

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

Your dealer is full of it.

If you look at the schematic they feed straight +12 volt power to both switches and pass that to the control board. So there's no way that adding a LED light is going to hurt anything. They also feed -12 volt DC back to the remote switch panel so using that would be easy.

According to the wiring diagram and switch description the middle light is a 'Remote Lockout Lamp". According to the manual the 'lockout' only lights when there's a lockout situation on the gas side of the heater.

Having said that, it would be easy to add a couple of LEDs to the switch plate to indicate when the switches are on. The -12 volt power is already at the switch and all you'd need is a couple of small 12 volt LEDs. Just wire the positive side of them to each outlet side of each switch and then tie the negative side of the LEDs to the -12v at the existing lockout light.

If you use discrete LEDs (as I do), don't forget to put a 330 ohm resistor in series with the LED or it will instantly burn out. Or for more convenience, you can go to https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale...t=leds+12v+3mm and buy them with long insulated leads and the resistor already attached.

Larry

[Bobaloo]

Please add some pictures and details when you're finished. I have left mine on and realized I've been heating water for two weeks after we get home and I've plugged into my 30 amp Rv receptacle .
Thanks,
Bob

[RogerWo]

I will add details once I have it done. In addition I have noted on my unit that there is no disconnect outside on the heater (which was standard on all my previous trailers). Looks to me like this is a situation where it would be easy to accidentally engage the heater when the heater is drained and burn out the heater element. Maybe I'M missing something here, but it seems to me that for lack of a relatively inexpensive outside switch there is a real potential to cause a repair.

[rockfordroo]

Try looking here. First one would probably do it.

JR Products :: Catalog

You'll have to run a 3rd wire from the switch to a 120VAC ground.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by RogerWo

I will add details once I have it done. In addition I have noted on my unit that there is no disconnect outside on the heater (which was standard on all my previous trailers). Looks to me like this is a situation where it would be easy to accidentally engage the heater when the heater is drained and burn out the heater element. Maybe I'M missing something here, but it seems to me that for lack of a relatively inexpensive outside switch there is a real potential to cause a repair.

Roger, only the Suburban brand water heaters have the outside switch for the heating element, which is what you most likely had before. The Atwood's don't have that, as you currently have.

Many water heaters are simply plugged into an outlet behind the water heater, in order to get 120 volt AC. This outlet (or even if direct wired) is also many times on it's very own circuit with dedicated circuit breaker. If so, you could just simply turn off the circuit breaker to it in the RV distribution panel, thus turning off the electric element, no matter what position the inside switch is in.

I know many people do such for the Suburban. Let me look at the wiring schematics for the Atwood's.

This thread may help:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1365826

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Roger, only the Suburban brand water heaters have the outside switch for the heating element, which is what you most likely had before. The Atwood's don't have that, as you currently have.

Many water heaters are simply plugged into an outlet behind the water heater, in order to get 120 volt AC. This outlet (or even if direct wired) is also many times on it's very own circuit with dedicated circuit breaker. If so, you could just simply turn off the circuit breaker to it in the RV distribution panel, thus turning off the electric element, no matter what position the inside switch is in.

I know many people do such for the Suburban. Let me look at the wiring schematics for the Atwood's.

This thread may help:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1365826

There are multiple flavors of Suburban, of course. The most common are:
SWnDE and SWnDEL where "n" could be 4, 6, 10, or 12. The difference is that the DEL models have a built-in relay that's actuated by 12v and switches the 110v on and off. If you have one of these, there's already a small 12v switch, similar to the switch that starts the propane side.

Mine is the DE model and lacks the relay, but as WMTIRE states, it is connected via plug-and-outlet to a dedicated circuit breaker in the panel. As the other poster said, I would prefer to have an easy-to-reach switch with pilot light for the electric side. Fortunately the water heater is under the range and there's a blank panel about 4" high between the range and the door for the water heater.

I've bought the parts but and will do the simple install soon. Basically I am going to make a panel-mounted extension cord with switch and pilot light.

Here are the parts:
One-gang old work electrical box
https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-1-Ga...al-Box/1099179

15-amp light switch with pilot light
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-15-...tch/1000050745

Outlet cover plate
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Pass-Seymou...-Plate/3235262

6-feet of Southwire 14/3 Black SJOOW Power Cord (By-the-Foot)
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Southwire-1...-Foot/50148244

Plug
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hubbell-15-...g-Plug/3739251
(equivalent less expensively available at Harbor Freight)

Socket
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Eaton-20-Am...nector/3568870
(equivalent available less expensively at Harbor Freight)

My plan is to do the wiring first and then mount the box and switch together. This will limit my time crouching on the floor.

First I will trace an outline of the box on the panel, cut the opening, and make sure the box fits.

Wiring will be straight forward. Working at one end of the cord, I will carefully strip off about four inches of the outer jacket. Without cutting the cord, I will strip about 1/2" of insulation from each of the whitecand green wires.

I will wrap the green bare wire under the green screw on the switch and tighten it.

I will wrap the white wire under the silver screw and tighten it.

I will cut the black wire and strip 1/2" from either end. There are two brass screws. One is also connected to the pilot light. The black wire from the short end of the cord goes under the brass screw connected to the pilot light (on the side that doesn't have the green screw. The black wire from the long end of the cord goes to the brass screw on the side with the green screw.

Get everything really tight. Electrical problems are caused by loose connections.

I will push the cords through the opening on the junction box. (This will be a little tricky, since they are meant to have wires installed from the other side. A hook or screwdriver will hold the springy flap open.)

I'll put the plug on the long end of the cord and the receptacle on the short end using same rules: green to green, black to brass (gold), white to silver. Everything must be really tight.

Now I will mount the box by sliding the cords and box in place. I expect to mount the box with some short flat-head wood screws, but if they don't seem solid, I will have flat-head machine screws, nuts and washers available.

Last, the easy parts. Attach the cover plate to the new switch. Unplug the water heater from the wall. Plug it into the receptacle attached to the new switch. Then insert the plug from the new switch into the wall.

Larry

[RogerWo]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Roger, only the Suburban brand water heaters have the outside switch for the heating element, which is what you most likely had before. The Atwood's don't have that, as you currently have.

Many water heaters are simply plugged into an outlet behind the water heater, in order to get 120 volt AC. This outlet (or even if direct wired) is also many times on it's very own circuit with dedicated circuit breaker. If so, you could just simply turn off the circuit breaker to it in the RV distribution panel, thus turning off the electric element, no matter what position the inside switch is in.

I know many people do such for the Suburban. Let me look at the wiring schematics for the Atwood's.

This thread may help:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1365826

No plug available at the heater, so it must be hard wired into the panel. There is a separate breaker marked W H so I will add that to the list to shut off when winterizing. Thanks for the tip. Roger