Plumber in Need of Plumbing Assistance

[davidgle]

I have an electric switch and a propane switch inside my 5th wheel which I turn on and off. Am I wrong in just leaving the switch on the outside at the WH in the on position all the time?

[bob213]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

As long as it gets out of warranty. I would just add a relay with snubber diodes.

For those of us that know nothing about electronics would you please expand on your comments. Maybe even a diagram. If this would solve the problem I'm sure a lot of us would like to know how to do it.
Thank you.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by davidgle

I have an electric switch and a propane switch inside my 5th wheel which I turn on and off. Am I wrong in just leaving the switch on the outside at the WH in the on position all the time?

Nope. Been doing that 4 months for 3 years.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by davidgle

I have an electric switch and a propane switch inside my 5th wheel which I turn on and off. Am I wrong in just leaving the switch on the outside at the WH in the on position all the time?

Originally Posted by cavie

Nope. Been doing that 4 months for 3 years.

As cavie says... nope.

If you can read and understand schematics, here is how the Suburban water heater is wired. As long as the outside switch is on, the 12v controlled 120v AC relay mounted at the rear of the refrigerator (powered by the inside switch for electric) will control the electric side just fine.

But remember... current is still flowing through the outside switch after it goes through the relay and as I mentioned in an earlier post, my outside switch is likely melted because I cannot move it. It still works and I'll either replace it (so it can happen again ) or I'll eliminate it.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by davidgle

I have an electric switch and a propane switch inside my 5th wheel which I turn on and off. Am I wrong in just leaving the switch on the outside at the WH in the on position all the time?

Wrong? Only in this sense.

If you use the camper when it's winterized, you want to make sure that someone doesn't turn on the inside switch when there's no water in the water heater. That instantly burns out the heating element.

If you don't use the camper when it's winterized, there's no problem leaving it on all the time.

Larry

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Wrong? Only in this sense.

If you use the camper when it's winterized, you want to make sure that someone doesn't turn on the inside switch when there's no water in the water heater. That instantly burns out the heating element.

If you don't use the camper when it's winterized, there's no problem leaving it on all the time.

Larry

A good point.

Bruce

[TheWolfPaq82]

This is one of those bits of information that is good to keep filed away. May just pick up a switch even though mine is still working.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

May just pick up a switch even though mine is still working.

Might as well. At less than $10.00 each, you can’t go wrong.

Bruce

[A32Deuce]

I like to turn off the outside switch as part of breaking camp and the last thing to do setting up camp. A just in case type deal.
I am on my 3rd switch!

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by nomad297

I leave the electric turned on to my Suburban SW6 DE water heater while I am camping and only use the propane when there will be a greater demand. I turn the switch (located outside on the tank) on when I get to the campground and I turn it off before I leave.

Originally Posted by davidgle

I have an electric switch and a propane switch inside my 5th wheel which I turn on and off. Am I wrong in just leaving the switch on the outside at the WH in the on position all the time?

Originally Posted by 5picker

As cavie says... nope.

If you can read and understand schematics, here is how the Suburban water heater is wired. As long as the outside switch is on, the 12v controlled 120v AC relay mounted at the rear of the refrigerator (powered by the inside switch for electric) will control the electric side just fine.

But remember... current is still flowing through the outside switch after it goes through the relay and as I mentioned in an earlier post, my outside switch is likely melted because I cannot move it. It still works and I'll either replace it (so it can happen again ) or I'll eliminate it.

Just to clarify the posts above for those who may read this thread later on. Forest River utilizes two different Suburban tank type water heaters that have the electric heating element option. The are what are called the SWDE and SWDEL models.


The OP of this thread has stated he has a SWDE model, which ONLY has one switch that controls the electric heating element...and it's located on the face of the water heater. This is the only switch that turns the electric heating element on/off.


Now davidgle has the SWDEL model water heater. It is built like a SWDE model, but in addition to the one outside switch on the face of the water heater...it also has a second switch inside the RV to control the on/off function of the electric heating element.


The relay that 5picker is talking about only refers to the SWDEL model and it's second switch inside the RV. The SWDE model does not have the relay OR the second switch.


Just making sure everyone understands this, as it can be confusing, especially for those looking for something that may not be applicable to their water heater. It's best to understand the difference between the SWDE and SWDEL models and not confuse the models and their controls....as being referred to in this thread.


Both models are explained here:


http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ore-36197.html

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

That instantly burns out the heating element.

Suburban has been utilizing a newer type heating element that won't instantly burn out anymore, if you energize it with no water.


It's explained in post #6 here with an email from Suburban:




http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1661524

[Semperfi24]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Suburban has been utilizing a newer type heating element that won't instantly burn out anymore, if you energize it with no water.


It's explained in post #6 here with an email from Suburban:




http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1661524

Interesting to see that there are new types that wont burn out. As many have commented on, I leave the outside (on the water heater itself) in the on position all camping season. The first trip of the year, I ensure the tank is completely full of water and then the last thing I do is turn that switch on. But I'm going to investigate the new technology heating elements.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Semperfi24

Interesting to see that there are new types that wont burn out. As many have commented on, I leave the outside (on the water heater itself) in the on position all camping season. The first trip of the year, I ensure the tank is completely full of water and then the last thing I do is turn that switch on. But I'm going to investigate the new technology heating elements.

To clarify again, the newer heating element will still burn out if energized with no water, it will just last longer before it does. It's explained in the link

[A32Deuce]

Was told about this new element last year at the Mayberry Rally during a Tec seminar.

[nomad297]

In preparation for receiving and installing my new switch today, I just took the bad switch out. It wasn’t as simple as just pulling out the old switch to get to the wires because one of the wires had melted off of the switch. After pulling out the bad switch, I had to remove the gas control valve to get it out of the way of one screw holding the element cover in place because the only way I could get to the melted-off wire was to get through the space between the element and the outer sheet metal cover. I am ready to replace it now.

Here’s a picture of the back of the old switch and the burned wire:



Bruce

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by nomad297

In preparation for receiving and installing my new switch today, I just took the bad switch out. It wasn’t as simple as just pulling out the old switch to get to the wires because one of the wires had melted off of the switch. After pulling out the bad switch, I had to remove the gas control valve to get it out of the way of one screw holding the element cover in place because the only way I could get to the melted-off wire was to get through the space between the element and the outer sheet metal cover. I am ready to replace it now.

Here’s a picture of the back of the old switch and the burned wire:

Attachment 201880

Bruce

Yes, that why I mentioned this sometimes is what you may find in post # 10.

Sounds like you got it going back in place now. Good deal.

If you removed the burner tube also with the control valve, might as well clean out the inside of it while it's off

[nomad297]

It took me about 15-20 minutes to put it all back together and it’s working just like it’s supposed to.

Thanks for the help!

Bruce

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by TheWolfPaq82

This is one of those bits of information that is good to keep filed away. May just pick up a switch even though mine is still working.

I meant to mention this in my last post: if you are going to keep a spare switch, you better have a couple fully insulated crimp-on 1/4” female disconnects, 16-14 gauge, on-hand as well. One of mine completely melted. It would be a shame to have the switch and not be able to connect it. In case I didn’t identify this part correctly (because I am not an electrician), I have included a picture below. The one that melted off had a 90 degree bend to it, but I couldn’t find one of those, so I just used a straight one like the one in the picture.

Bruce

[Semperfi24]

Originally Posted by Semperfi24

Interesting to see that there are new types that wont burn out. As many have commented on, I leave the outside (on the water heater itself) in the on position all camping season. The first trip of the year, I ensure the tank is completely full of water and then the last thing I do is turn that switch on. But I'm going to investigate the new technology heating elements.

Understood, I simply misstated the point. They give you the extra time to realize your mistake before the damage is done, but you still need to realize the mistake or its toast.

[Semperfi24]

Originally Posted by nomad297

I meant to mention this in my last post: if you are going to keep a spare switch, you better have a couple fully insulated crimp-on 1/4” female disconnects, 16-14 gauge, on-hand as well. One of mine completely melted. It would be a shame to have the switch and not be able to connect it. In case I didn’t identify this part correctly (because I am not an electrician), I have included a picture below. The one that melted off had a 90 degree bend to it, but I couldn’t find one of those, so I just used a straight one like the one in the picture.

Bruce

Attachment 202041

Completely agree with Bruce about the connector. I have seen the ones with the "elbow" at auto parts stores, sometimes that makes it a little easier to put the switch back in (and sometimes it makes it harder). But it is a good piece to have with you. I know in mine, it came with the elbow style, and I had to replace one. I replaced it with the "straight" style, and it made it more difficult to reinstall (possibly because one was elbow and one was straight). After the fact I ended up stumbling on the one with the 90 degree bend in Advance Auto