Sonovacheapmuthalovin.......bloody cheap plumbing!

[great white]

Well, late into the season, but I just "dewinterized" the trailer. We weren't planning to use it this year but things change.

2011 Flagstaff classic superlite 831rlbss.

Last fall, I blew the lines out (opened all faucets), shut off the HW tank, removed the filter, anti freezed the pump and lines and then drained all the tanks one last time.

Sounds good, right?

Not a frickin' chance!

I fill the fresh tank and snap on the pump to start purging the lines and all I can hear is "sshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" under the kitchen sink!

AUUUGGHHHHH!!!

After several minutes of sopping up water I crawl under and have a look.

The hot water line has popped apart at the 90 degree fitting to the faucet.

What?

I pull it down and discover the FR in their infinite wisdom has installed a "check valve" in the hot water fitting. Basically, a few drops of h20 was trapped behind it and popped the cheap fitting apart. Stupid design. Now way in heck to get all the water blown out because reside water runs down the line and collects on the check valve.

Well, it looks like PEX line, maybe I can install a PEX fitting and be done with it. Off to the hardware store.

I get back and try to cut the clamp off. No dice. The one place they didn't seem to cheap out is the pinch clamps. Side cutters and a fair bit of swearing finally wins the day. Now grab what's left of the buggered fitting and pull. Nope, not comming out. Another round of curses. Look for some cutters. Nothing will cut the line becaus eall my cutters are straight anvil. More cursing.

Grab the garden loppers and SNAP!

The fitting is off and the line is clean.

FINALLY! it's going my way again.

Slide on the Pex fitting and screw it in to the faucet.

Turn on the water and;


"SHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

More cursing and more water sopping.

Seems the lines look like PEX but are just off enough not to be PEX sized. Proprietary FR stuff I'd wager.

More cursing.

Back to the hardware store and find a sleeve that will open and stiffen the line enough that the pex fittings will work.

Home again, install the fittings. Turn on the water and:

JOY! no Shhhhhhh.

But...........

Drip, drip, drip.

Now the cold fitting is leaking. Crank it down and it leaks less but still leaks.

Grrrrrrrrr.........

Well, lets check the faucets.

Turn 'em on and;

Leaking at the base, top and body!


AUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



A closer look reveals the entire faucet is plastic!

Plastic?

you gotta be kidding me.......

So I decide that's just about enough. Off to the hardware store again. This time no messing around.

Down the plumbing isle I grab the proper pex cutters, all new pex fittings and a new Peerless kitchen faucet with the sprayer hose.

Pay for it all and head home. Just over a hundred bucks taxes in.

back at the trailer, the pex cutter makes short work of FR's crap parts and workmanship. It all flies out the door and across the driveway in one big pile. In goes the new faucet and PEX lines/fittings.

Fire up the pump and:


AHHhhhhhhh..........

Sound as a pound.

No leaks anywhere, faucet works smooth a seamless.

It all even looks better.

All this heartache because some stupid builder/engineer decided to put a check valve where one had no earthly business being in the first place....

[wmtire]

I feel your pain, especially on the faucet. My 831's el-cheapo faucet actually ruined my countertop, that FR replaced under warranty.

I did as you....... went to Home Depot and bought a real faucet, and shouldn't have to worry about it again.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ss-9280-3.html

Now you got me wondering about the check valve, which I don't guess I noticed while lying on my back replacing the faucet. Of course, down here in Louisiana, things freezing aren't something we worry about too much.......on either of the two days a year that it could happen.

[DDC]

It really makes you wonder how low quality will go, all because they can't seem to reach the bottom with cost cutting.

[LadyWindrider]

If you removed the check valve, I hope you installed a a regular valve. Otherwise, when you go to winterize, you will back feed the water heater and put antifreeze in it. The check valve eliminates to need for a valve on the outlet side of the water heater. Not sure which is cheaper, just one less valve.

[great white]

Originally Posted by windrider

If you removed the check valve, I hope you installed a a regular valve. Otherwise, when you go to winterize, you will back feed the water heater and put antifreeze in it. The check valve eliminates to need for a valve on the outlet side of the water heater. Not sure which is cheaper, just one less valve.

Nope. Tank is shut off and drained when winterized.

It has a shut off on the inlet and the outlet ofthe heater as well as a bypass.

Nothing getting in there.

The "valve" at the base of the faucet is pointless other than to trap "freezable" water in there and catch you with your shorts down.

Doesn't matter if it gets any "backwash" antifreeze in there anyways.

Spring routine is to thoroughly flush and sanitize anything that water touches.

That includes the hot water tank and lines...

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by great white

Nope. Tank is shut off and drained when winterized.

It has a shut off on the inlet and the outlet ofthe heater as well as a bypass.

Nothing getting in there.

The "valve" at the base of the faucet is pointless other than to trap "freezable" water in there and catch you with your shorts down.

Doesn't matter if it gets any "backwash" antifreeze in there anyways.

Spring routine is to thoroughly flush and sanitize anything that water touches.

That includes the hot water tank and lines...

Just curious, was the check in the hot supply, cold, or a combination of both leading to the faucet. I know its plumbing code a vac breaker or check valve must be installed in line with any fitting which may provide a connection for another device. IE: a dishwasher or supply for a washer or any device like that. It will prevent contaminated water from backflowing to tanks or hose. Then you must blow down through the fitting.

[ejohnson03]

This is amazing...

I have a 2009 Roo 21SS and had the exact same problem with the Hot line 90 degree thing blowing apart.

And the cheap faucet, cold valve, would not shut off.

I bought a new faucet at Campers world, and the install went perfect.

Still trying to address the Hot line connection.

So, it is not a Pex connection?

And you need a special tool to crimp the new Pex replacement onto the tubing?

Crap, that is a lot of dough to put out for a simple connection.

I'll probably will never need to use that tool ever again.

Oh wait, there is still the bathroom and outside shower.

Well, off I go to home Depot.

Thanks for your post...

[funkyJunk]

I'm going to recommend something that I never leave home without now. Rescue tape is AWESOME. I use it for all kinds of stuff from fixing electrical wires, repairing leaky pipes, mending scuba gear etc. The list goes on. This stuff really works and you can patch a leak and easily save a camping trip.

Link:
RESCUE TAPE Self-Fusing Silicone Tape ~ BLACK: Amazon.com: Sports & Outdoors

[great white]

Originally Posted by ejohnson03

This is amazing...

I have a 2009 Roo 21SS and had the exact same problem with the Hot line 90 degree thing blowing apart.

And the cheap faucet, cold valve, would not shut off.

I bought a new faucet at Campers world, and the install went perfect.

Still trying to address the Hot line connection.

So, it is not a Pex connection?

And you need a special tool to crimp the new Pex replacement onto the tubing?

Crap, that is a lot of dough to put out for a simple connection.

I'll probably will never need to use that tool ever again.

Oh wait, there is still the bathroom and outside shower.

Well, off I go to home Depot.

Thanks for your post...

It's not PEX line, but pex connectors worked on mine.

What I did was find 90 degree faucet connectors that had a compression type fitting on one end. Basically, a pex connector without actually being pex.

You cut the line off flush (I bought the cutting tool for PEX lines, 15 bucks), then insert a small "tube sleeve" tat comes with the fitting package which reinforces the line and push it in to the fitting until it bottoms out. The sleeve keeps the line from squeezing down too small.

The other end of the fitting screws on to the faucet like a regular fitting.

So, the faucet was something like 65 bucks, two fittings at about 5 bucks a piece and the cutting tool for 15 bucks. Once taxes were in I came out at around 100 bucks.

I did buy pex line, but returned it after I got the red and blue lines to work with the fittings.

[ejohnson03]

Well, it went better than expected.

Bought a 90 degree Sharkbite fitting.

Cut off the crappy part on the Hot line, screwed the new fitting onto the Faucet, slipped in the tubing on the other end, and wah lah.

Problem solved.

Oh, the new faucet I installed looks way better than what came with the trailer, and no dripping.

[crasher]

Well, what do you expect when they MSRP something for $25k, sell it for $12k. It has to be made for $6k for the business to survive. What kind of RV can be built for $6k that isn't made out of plastic toy parts?

[great white]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well, what do you expect when they MSRP something for $25k, sell it for $12k. It has to be made for $6k for the business to survive. What kind of RV can be built for $6k that isn't made out of plastic toy parts?

Not sure where you're getting your prices from, but they retail for a lot more up here.

for example:

my 2011 831RLBSS retailed for 38-40,000 (ish).

They sell (when it was new) around 32-35,000 (ish) if you beat the dealer with a length of garden hose; and I mean the end with the metal fitting, not just the hose.

Bigger 5th's and toy haulers go for waaaay more. My size TT in a 5th wheel goes for an easy 10 grand more, mostly because 5th wheels are the "hot" thing right now.

That's a far cry from 6,000 to build it.

Assuming that's a reasonable estimate for manufacturing costs, which I don't think it is.

Just labor costs are going to run you at least more than half of that. It's not assembled/built in china, it's put together in the US where labor costs are more than a couple bucks a day per worker...

So no, I don't think I'm expecting too much for what they make on these things.

And Yes, I do think quality should be MUCH better for that price.

[crasher]

What I'm saying is cost is 25% of msrp typically. So if your msrp is higher, then multiply. %2