Tankless water heater

[Johnv]

I have a Girard tankless water heater in our new Sterling 30RL. From the beginning it has been troublesome. I have been in contact with the Girard factory and our Wildcat dealer. We have done everything we to correct the problem we have been told, but it either runs too hot or too cold and a tremendous amount of water is required to stabilize the temp. To make it usable, we run some hot in the bathroom sink while we shower to get a tolerable temp. We have purged all lines, performed the factory recommended bypass on the auto mode, taken out the restrictors in all faucets, and added an accumulator. We are going to replace it with a traditional water heater. Has anyone done this yet and what model is recommended? Is there any help available under warrantee to make this right? We love the camper, but we have now resorted to going to the shower house until we can get it fixed.

Johnv

[Herk7769]

Interesting.
We all learned something new recently for a water temperature issue.

The solution apparently was a shower head problem (in the post it was an inside shower head but yours could be an outside one).

Apparently if the hot and cold valves are left open and the shower head button is closed; hot and cold water move back and forth through the valves and water temperature can vary wildly.

Something to check.

[TURBS]

theres been other posts with units having trouble with there tankless heater .
I would go with the 10 gallon hwh I don't know if the brand really matters but definitely do the 10 gallon .
thats to bad they cant get these tankless heaters to work right .
actually they need a plumbing expert to figure it out.

[Oakman]

Wildcat has had enough complaints about the tankless water heaters that they should offer a free replacement of a 10 gallon water heater to owners.

For a short time the tankless water heater was standard equipment and the 10 gallon water heater was an option. Because of complaints from dealerships and users it is now the reverse. The tankless water heater was a good idea on paper, but not practical for most RV'ers.

[TURBS]

I think with an experienced plumber versed in tank less heaters they should be able to fix the problem/s

[Oakman]

One of the inherent problems with the tankless water heater is that you don’t mix the cold water with the hot water to achieve the correct water temperature. You use only the hot faucet for temperature control and the temperature of the water is controlled by the rate of water flow through the heater. The slower the water flow the hotter the water. The system wastes a lot of water. If your shower water is too cold then you slow the water flow to get it warmer, you have to allow sufficient time for the water to travel from the water heater to the faucet after each adjustment to tell if your adjustment was enough. If it’s still too cold you have to make another small adjustment and again wait for the water already in the lines to run through before you know if it’s the temperature you want. Water pressure is a crucial component of this system and it was for this reason that Wildcat quit putting water filters in those trailers.

If you’re boondocking with a tankless water heater installed, you will use up a lot of the water in your fresh water holding tank with just one shower. My wife’s nephew has a Wilcat Sterling model with the tankless water heater and he absolutely hates it. He too is planning on replacing the tankless system.

[4x4man]

We had a few troubles to work through recently while we were in NM with our tankless. We also had a temp problem where it was either scaulding hot with the hot water completely on, and then, mixing in a little cold water which we know we should not do, but had no choice, made the entire shower water go cold. We switched the water heater from Auto to Low after reading the manual and figuring what the heck. The low setting puts the heater in a lower btu flame so it can't get the water as hot. With a half turn on the hot water faucet we had a great temp in the shower and still had good water pressure thanks to the oxygenics shower head. Might be worth a try to see if that helps you. I to was ready to replace my tankless with a regular heater, but after my wife got sick while we were in NM and took an ~30 minute non stop shower I have a hard time getting rid of it now... Also, the 10 gallon heater dimensions that I found online are too big for the opening so it won't direct fit. Now in a couple of weeks we have to pack in our water on our next trip...certainly going to be a different story and we'll see what we think of it then. This tankless water heater does waste a lot of water compared to the standard water heaters we have had in our previous rigs.

Thankfully this is not a forced option anymore so people can have a choice now. This certainly isn't a green water heater...but the marketers would probably disagree with me.

Bob

[annamarie]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Interesting.
We all learned something new recently for a water temperature issue.

The solution apparently was a shower head problem (in the post it was an inside shower head but yours could be an outside one).

Apparently if the hot and cold valves are left open and the shower head button is closed; hot and cold water move back and forth through the valves and water temperature can vary wildly.

Something to check.

I've never had a problem with this issue yet, but that's very interesting to know. Thanks for the tidbit Herk.

[extremebike]

Originally Posted by Johnv

I have a Girard tankless water heater in our new Sterling 30RL. From the beginning it has been troublesome. I have been in contact with the Girard factory and our Wildcat dealer. We have done everything we to correct the problem we have been told, but it either runs too hot or too cold and a tremendous amount of water is required to stabilize the temp. To make it usable, we run some hot in the bathroom sink while we shower to get a tolerable temp. We have purged all lines, performed the factory recommended bypass on the auto mode, taken out the restrictors in all faucets, and added an accumulator. We are going to replace it with a traditional water heater. Has anyone done this yet and what model is recommended? Is there any help available under warrantee to make this right? We love the camper, but we have now resorted to going to the shower house until we can get it fixed.

Johnv

HI!

I have a 32RL and inside the switch/ control box is a switch for the Girard. If you switch to the other setting then the heater will not get as hot. You will then use less water flow to get a good washing or shower temperature. There is also an adjustment in the heater itself but I would let the dealer adjust that.

[marina5]

Just came back from Florida with our new Wildcat and also had to stop using the shower
With the tankless water heater the water is to hot or to cold and the switch did nothing.
Doug

[Wildcat Chris]

I'm posting this again, since there's a need. Here's some information from Girard on the optional tankless water heater system in use by Wildcat (our standard is a 10 gallon DSI gas/electric "quick recovery" water heater). I'm providing it here as extra information for Forest River Forum members who both have Wildcats and are looking at this option for their future Wildcat...

This info is directly from Girard:

GIRARD TANKLESS WATER HEATER END USER TESTING GUIDE
OPERATING & TESTING INSTRUCTIONS FOR END USER

The Girard Tankless Water Heater operates differently than tank water heaters.

There are procedures that need to be done for the Water Heater to perform properly. The same is true for a tank water heater, but it is less critical for the tank model. Remember, the Girard Tankless Water Heater is giving immediate HOT water as you need it also it has no recovery time and it is not storing a tank of pre-heated water.

The Girard Tankless Water Heater will heat incoming water approximately 40 to 60 degrees depending on the water flow rate. The typical shower temperature is between 98 – 104 degrees. As a comparison a hot tub is usually set between 103 – 106 degrees.

If necessary, to check for the proper temperature rise (inlet cold water temperature to outlet hot water temperature) it will be necessary to use a thermometer. Use a digital thermometer which provides immediate temperature readings. These are available at most discount/department stores in the kitchen utensil section. DON’T trust your hands for temperature tests since hands don’t feel heat like the rest of your body. Your installer should have performed the following:





OPERATING PROCEDURE

• Purge all of the air from all Cold and Hot water lines by opening up the faucets. Kitchen, bathroom sink, showers, toilet, outside shower/water faucets and washing machine water lines if applicable. Be sure to turn OFF the outside shower faucet rather than just closing the shower head OFF button. This procedure should be performed whenever the water lines have been emptied/drained.
• Go to the kitchen faucet and turn on the COLD water and note the temperature (allow sufficient time to get a valid reading). Let the water run into a cup and place the thermometer probe into the cup. Turn OFF the COLD water faucet and make a note of the COLD water temperature.
• Turn the Water Heater ON – ON/OFF Switch is located outside in the Water Heater compartment. You can leave this switch ON all season since it only draws power when there is a demand for HOT water.
• Set the Mode Switch to AUTO or HIGH.
• At the kitchen sink, turn the HOT water faucet ON to about a medium water flow. Allow sufficient time for the HOT water to travel from the Water Heater to the faucet.
• Check the HOT water temperature. Let the water run into a cup and insert the thermometer probe into the cup. At the medium water flow rate you should see approximately a 40+ degree temperature rise. You can gradually adjust the HOT water flow (a very small adjustment) to adjust the HOT water temperature; don’t look at the knob/lever but at the actual water flow. Allow sufficient time for the water to travel from the Water Heater to the faucet after each adjustment. Try to achieve a temperature up around 110 – 115 degrees. Let it run for a few minutes to confirm that the temperature is maintaining.
• The Water Heater will provide approximately a 40 – 60 degree temperature rise (from inlet water temperature) depending on the Hot water flow rate. So, if the inlet water temperature is 55 degrees, you should have Hot Water from approximately 95 degrees to 115 degrees (depending on the Hot Water flow). NOTE: If the water temperature starts cycling from Hot to Cold and then back to Hot it means the Water Heater is limiting so increase the hot water flow. The Water Heater has an Emergency Cut Off sensor that turns the burner off at approximately 122 degrees to prevent scalding. If still limiting set Mode Switch to LOW.
• If you achieve the various temperatures at the kitchen sink move to the shower and perform the same test. Note – Certain Shower heads/fixtures may vary the results due to water flow/pressure. Contact your Girard Dealer or Service Center if you can’t achieve the proper temperatures.
• Since the Girard Tankless Water Heater does not have a tank it does not need to pre-heat and store water to 130 to 140 degrees. Tank water heaters must heat the water hotter since they are trying to make 6, 10 or 12 gallons of Hot water last longer (so you can mix it with cold water to achieve the proper hot water temperature) and allow the end user a few minutes of Useable Hot Water temperatures. With the Girard Tankless Water Heater it is not necessary to “super-heat” the water since you do not have to mix Hot water with Cold water to achieve the Useable Hot water temperatures; it will provide all the Useable Hot water you need and will only draw power (to make that Hot water) when there is a demand for Hot Water.

If you still have issues with the tankless water heater, call Girard's tech support:
1.866.559.1221 (toll free)

Please also look at this informative page on their web site:
FAQ’s - Girard Products, LLC | Girard Tankless RV Water Heater | Frequently Asked RV Water Heater Questions

[the.wilsons]

We have the tankless hot water heater in ours and have only been camping in it once but wish we had the 10 gal. Reason being that if we camp somewhere without sewer it waste water getting the temp right. Especially if you get wet cut water off soap up and then turn water back on to rinse.

[TURBS]

so wildcat chris if I am ready this right your saying to not use cold water at all ?

[Wildcat Chris]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

so wildcat chris if I am ready this right your saying to not use cold water at all ?

That is correct. You do not mix hot and cold as you do with a standard tank water heater -- there is no need. You start with full on HOT (zero restriction) and slightly decrease water flow to increase temperature (restricting flow causes temperature to rise since water spends more time in heating coil). The tankless upgrade includes a Oxygenics shower head to further assist in this adjustment.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Wildcat Chris

That is correct. You do not mix hot and cold as you do with a standard tank water heater -- there is no need. You start with full on HOT (zero restriction) and slightly decrease water flow to increase temperature (restricting flow causes temperature to rise since water spends more time in heating coil). The tankless upgrade includes a Oxygenics shower head to further assist in this adjustment.

Seems to me this should be a giant sticker on the shower door at delivery.
Just sayin'

I mean if the Army can put "This side toward enemy" on Claymore Mines...

[TURBS]

I bet your post will help tons!
I'm glad I asked.

[Oakman]

Girard needs to be working on the next generation of tankless water heaters. A new version that would allow cold water to be mixed with the hot from the tankless system. Regardless though, endless hot water isn't necessarily a good thing when boondocking without hookups. Conservation of resources takes priority over endless hot showers when camping without hookups.

[Wildcat Chris]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Seems to me this should be a giant sticker on the shower door at delivery.
Just sayin'

I mean if the Army can put "This side toward enemy" on Claymore Mines...

You mean like the ones that we install there at the factory?
http://www.greenrvproducts.com/ShowerSticker.jpg


Or maybe a hang tag on all showers and sinks?
http://www.greenrvproducts.com/HangTag.jpg

It seems the assumption is that the manufacturer is both WRONG and UNPREPARED. I guess it's a good thing I'm patient and willing to assist in setting the story straight.

Maybe if there were more actual end users commenting in this thread, we'd have a better chance of avoiding some of the speculation and confusion. There are literally thousands of these tankless units in use in RVs today (close to 8,000 actually). While I'm aware that this isn't a feature that everyone wants, it doesn't make it "bad" just different. I'm also aware that not everyone is 100% satisfied with the tankless system -- we didn't/don't have a 100% approval on the tanked system either (just read some of the water heater threads on other parts of this forum and the internet in general)! Further, I'd ask if you know of any other brand that's offering these kinds of choices on the market today...

Wildcat has been known for being innovative for years. Not innovative for the sake of being innovative or to use it as "marketing speak," but for the sake of pushing our product (and sometimes, the RV industry) forward, providing the best solutions to our RVing customers. Whether it's floor plans, components, features, or construction methods, we're always looking to improve our product. We don't always get it right, but we'll continue trying, exploring, revising, and redefining until we do!

[Wildcat Chris]

Originally Posted by Oakman

Girard needs to be working on the next generation of tankless water heaters. A new version that would allow cold water to be mixed with the hot from the tankless system. Regardless though, endless hot water isn't necessarily a good thing when boondocking without hookups. Conservation of resources takes priority over endless hot showers when camping without hookups.

Let's talk about this again soon...

[on vacation]

I have a Sterling 32rk with the tankless water heater. We replaced the shower head with one we bought at Wally world. Before we put the new shower head on, we took out the water restricting washer. Had to play with the water adjustment the first couple of times we used it after the change. Now we have to turn on the hot all the way and then crack the cold. Works great.