Toilet leaking only when hot water heater turned on?

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 08:36 AM

Crazy as that sounds its true. New Freedom Express 29' travel trailer has developed a leak at toilet. Does not leak as long as the hot water heater is off however when hot water heater is turned on to take a shower there is a leak and puddle found behind the toilet. Traced it up to what seems to be the water intake of the toilet even though can't be sure. Any thoughts?

5picker · 06-28-2016, 08:40 AM

Does sound crazy but not out of the realm of possibility.

I believe your plumbing system is incurring an increase of water pressure when the water tank heats up and expands the water. Sounds like a simple tightening of the inlet pipe on the toilet should do the trick.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 09:00 AM

Thanks. We just set up an appointment to have someone fix it. I am not there and my Wife is the only one staying in the trailer right now. She says she can not reach or get to the fitting so I presume the toilet will have to be removed. Think the service call will be covered under warranty too. I agree that the extra pressure is what is doing it. Thanks again.

**Bama Rambler** · 06-28-2016, 01:45 PM

You might have her check the pop off valve behind the outside water heater door to see if it drips when the heater is on. If it does you may have lost the air space in the heater. To restore it, just turn the heater off and let it cool down and pull the lever to let some water out and some air into the heater tank.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 01:59 PM

I certainly will. Could this be the cause of the problem? Lastly would she need to empty a lot of the water? Thanks for your help.

**Bama Rambler** · 06-28-2016, 02:13 PM

There's not much air space in there so there won't be much water to empty. Half a gallon of less.

It could exacerbate the problem. The air space in the heater is there to absorb some of the expansion of the water when it heats to keep the system pressure from rising too much. If there's no air space, then the external plumbing has to absorb the pressure rise and that could cause a leak in a weak spot in the plumbing. In your case it appears to be the toilet valve connection.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 02:23 PM

Makes good sense. I will have her check when she gets to the trailer tonight. Question. Instead of heating the water first and then checking for a leak at the valve can I have her just go ahead and empty some water at the valve and then turn the water heater on to see if that may have helped? Or should she heat the water first and then check the valve for a leak? Also while water is being released should the city water be turned off? Thanks so much for your time and help.

**Bama Rambler** · 06-28-2016, 02:38 PM

Either way works to create the air space. It's probably easier to have her turn the water off and pull the lever on the pop off valve prior to heating the water.

Then she can turn the water on and then turn the water heater on. Then she'll know if it helps the issue. Even if it stops the leaking, you should check and tighten the fitting a little when you get a chance.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 02:40 PM

Thanks I will let you know the outcome. Been a big help.

5picker · 06-28-2016, 02:55 PM

In case you missed it... BAMA said to let the water heater COOL DOWN!

Just tell her to BE CAREFUL when opening the pop-off valve. That water can be SCALDING if it hasn't cooled down!

As mentioned... she'll need to turn off the city water or the pump beforehand too.
Otherwise it will pump as much back in as you are trying to remove.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 03:01 PM

Thanks. She has been leaving the hot water heater off and taking cold showers so the water should not be hot. Maybe if this works she will at least be able to take hot shower until we can check the fitting.

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 06:21 PM

Okay I had her do as suggested but when she opens relief valve only a very tiny bit of water comes out?

fonzie · 06-28-2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovehifi

Okay I had her do as suggested but when she opens relief valve only a very tiny bit of water comes out?

Need to open a hot water faucet at kitchen sink first, then pull relief valve and let water drain until it stops. release relief valve, close hot water kitchen faucet then re-pressurize. This will add air to create cushion in water heater.....

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 06:48 PM

Thanks. Had her do that and this time maybe 10-12 ounces came out of the relief valve. Had her go turn off the kitchen sink and turn back on the city water. Then after a few minutes had her turn back on the water heater. Going to check back with her in about an hour to get a status report once the water gets hot. Was still surprised only that amount of water came out but maybe that is normal since she had the sink faucet on too. Thanks again.

bubbles · 06-28-2016, 07:43 PM

Cannot visualize how WH affects the toilet input. If you have winterizing valves on the back of your WH are you sure they are turned all the way in the right directions?

lovehifi · 06-28-2016, 08:21 PM

I know it is strange. I will have her recheck those too but I did check them before she took the trailer to Fl. and all seemed okay.
Note: She tried all the suggestions and it still leaks once the hot water reaches max temp. Not much but enough to wet a couple of paper towels. We have service scheduled for Tuesday. In the mean time she can run the water heater until it just gets warm, not hot and take a shower. I suspect the intake fitting is loose at the toilet. I will have them also check the relief valve outside and make sure that is releasing pressure when it should. On a new RV if this is the only problem we run it to that is fine. lol Thanks everyone for your suggestions and taking the time to try to help. Awesome forum and great people. Once we have an answer and a fix I will update.

5picker · 06-28-2016, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbles

Cannot visualize how WH affects the toilet input. If you have winterizing valves on the back of your WH are you sure they are turned all the way in the right directions?

When the water in the water heater gets hot, it expands.
When it expands, it also increases the pressure throughout the entire plumbing system.
When the pressure in the entire system increases, it can cause a leak at the weakest point, which in this case is the toilet connection.

This scenario may turn out to not be the OP's problem... but it could be.

bubbles · 06-29-2016, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5picker

When the water in the water heater gets hot, it expands.
When it expands, it also increases the pressure throughout the entire plumbing system.
When the pressure in the entire system increases, it can cause a leak at the weakest point, which in this case is the toilet connection.

This scenario may turn out to not be the OP's problem... but it could be.

So, by that analogy opening the cold water side of a faucet will relieve the WH pressure build up. Never knew that.

**Bama Rambler** · 06-29-2016, 11:16 AM

Sorry it didn't work, but at least you're not any worse off. Bummer that she can't reach back there and tighten the nut just a little to see if that stops it.

MOODMAN · 06-29-2016, 01:22 PM

I have a different theory...
You said it happens when you turn on the shower. That implies to me that there is a leak inside the wall from the shower lines, and the water is traveling down the inside pipes and then dripping onto the line that goes to your toilet.
It only APPEARS the leak is coming from the toilet, but it is really the hot water line behind the wall going to your shower that is leaking, then the water travels inside the wall and comes out at the toilet.
This can actually be a blessing in disguise, because if it is leaking and then dripping somewhere inside the coach behind the walls without being seen, you would have a real mess once you discovered the leak later.

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