1st real trip with Lithium batteries review

[Sagecoachdriver]

We just made a trip to Yosemite where I could really test my Battleborn Lithium batteries. The batteries were fully charged when we left LA and were still fully charged when we arrived 6 hours later. My engine alternator and battery are totally disconnected from the systems PD 55amp original converter charger. The house lithium batteries were maintained driving by my 300 watt of solar panels.
First night, we used about 30 amps drawn off the Lithium batteries overnight and ran the generator for about 40 minutes while making breakfast. That recharged to about 6 amps. With the campsite shaded by trees, we were only able to reduce the draw and at 5pm were down 10amps. While cooking for dinner we were able to very quickly recover the 10amps using the generator.
2nd morning we awoke to about the same down about 30 amps and recovered down to about 6 amps again. We ran the generator at breakfast fully charging the batteries and then moved to a sunny campsite. It stayed fully charged all day, We were able to use our satellite and TV that evening.
Next morning we were down 42 amps. Didn't run the generator. We packed up and headed for home. When we arrived home my lithium batteries were still down 10 amps and the solar charged back 30 amps.
My main reason for getting the lithium batteries was to cut down generator use in Yosemite, especially in winter where the draw can get down to 70 amp in the morning with furnace use, satellite and TV. It worked fine.
Pros:
I was impressed by the fast recharging of the batteries with my original PD 55 amp converter charger. It would recharge at 35-42amps continually until fully charged, not like the flooded that would decrease the amps as the voltage rose. When in sunlight and using the generator, the solar adds to the amps recharging and input to the batteries has been as high as 50amps. Plus the various LEDs throughout the MH were brighter at night because of the 13.5 volts lithium versus the 12.3-12.5v flooded. Great night lights.
Cons:
None really for the batteries, but my solar not fully recharging the house batteries on the 6 hour trip home in full sunlight was disappointing. Perhaps I need to add another 100watt panel or run the generator for an hour either prior to or during the first hour of travel. Not really a big deal as it gets fully charged when we get home.
Special thanks to Babock for his input

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

Cons:
None really for the batteries, but my solar not fully recharging the house batteries on the 6 hour trip home in full sunlight was disappointing. Perhaps I need to add another 100watt panel or run the generator for an hour either prior to or during the first hour of travel. Not really a big deal as it gets fully charged when we get home.
Special thanks to Babock for his input

Your experience was similar to mine although I draw a little less power at night, perhaps because I set furnace down to around 60.

I don't have Solar on the roof so I elected to install a Renogy DC-DC-1212-20 charger (which also acts as an islolater) to recharge while on the road. While driving my TV's alternator feeds a steady 19.1 amp into my two Battleborn's until they're full.

As for Generator running, I only run the generator when I want to use the Microwave and when I start it I let it run until after I've eaten. Don't worry too much about how full the batteries are at that point as the converter has been pushing 55-57 amp into the batteries while generator is running. After that I just let my 160 watt solar panel suitcase take over charging.

So far the only time I've had to run the generator to charge the batteries when I felt they were low after a few days was when the sun was behind heavy clouds and it was raining. Even charging the batteries from 30-40% DOD to 100% SOC didn't take more than 3-1/2 -4 hours.

Certainly nothing like the old "All Day Generator Runs" the old Lead Acid batteries took.

Sounds like your system is pretty well balanced between load and charging capability. If you want to top off your batteries while driving consider adding the Renogy unit so you can tap unused charging capacity from your alternator. Super easy to install, acts as an isolator while engine's not running, and cost (20 amp unit is $127) is reasonable. It will also work alongside your solar. Just another source of charging power if the Solar Panels aren't getting enough direct sun.

Thanks for sharing.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Mike, how big is your converter charger? The most I’ve seen is 44 amps and 56 with solar going too. when Babock came over and ran a test, my solar seemed to be maxing at 12amps and it shows 16.2amps combined max. Of course that was in the spring with lower sun. Guess we are back at the same range of sun aren’t we. Just a matter of tweaking to get best output now. Maybe Next spring I’ll check each solar panels output. Another 100 watt panel would sure help!
And thank you TitanMike for your input too!

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

Mike, how big is your converter charger? The most I’ve seen is 44 amps and 56 with solar going too. when Babock came over and ran a test, my solar seemed to be maxing at 12amps and it shows 16.2amps combined max. Of course that was in the spring with lower sun. Guess we are back at the same range of sun aren’t we. Just a matter of tweaking to get best output now. Maybe Next spring I’ll check each solar panels output. Another 100 watt panel would sure help!
And thank you TitanMike for your input too!

My converter is a 60 amp PD9160AL.

I've been re-working the wiring from my Converter to the bus bars in my battery compartment as well as the wires from batteries (including the jumpers between batteries) to the bus bars.

When I first installed the batteries and converter I too saw about the same output from the Converter. I had earlier up-sized the wire from Converter to batteries from the #8 awg OE wire to #4 awg. At the time I disconnected the #8 wire on both ends and left it dead.

Not long ago I decided to see why I wasn't getting full current so I started measuring voltage drops across the various wires in my battery compartment. Jumper wires, wires to the bus bars, wires to the main fuse, and wires to the switch. Each was fairly low but with 7 wires involved it all added up.

I decided to do a "once and for all" change. I up-sized all wires in the battery compartment to 2/0. Since I own my own Crimping tool it wasn't all that expensive. I also re-connected the #8 wire in parallel with the #4 awg wire (fused on each end for safety) and then turned on the charger.

Max output was now going to the Batteries. If I were to do it over again I'd either move my converter to the battery compartment (which is really crowded now) and run a 120 volt line from power center to the battery compartment.

In summary, if you can't or don't want to mount the converter as close to the batteries as possible, just use the largest wire possible. If wire size is limited, use two in parallel. Two wires in parallel will halve the resistance which will reduce voltage drop by a corresponding amount.

A note on solar, at least my setup.

I have lots of time on my hands so I like to experiment. When I assembled my Suitcase panel setup I opted for wiring them in series and sending their output down a #10 awg piece of "cord" I had picked up over the years. It's a piece of 10-4 SO cord with four #10 conductors. At first I just used one conductor each for positive and negative to send the panel output about 40 feet to my TT where I have an Victron 75/15 Smart MPPT controller mounted within a foot of the batteries. Panel output with the single wire being used along with some #12 wire from the original "solar ready" wiring gave me around 8 amp max charging current from my 160 watt panels or about 79% of the potential.

Recently I "went whole hog" on my solar setup. Replaced wires from panel junction boxes with #10 awg "pigtails" about 2' long with bare wire on one end and MC-4 connectors on other. I had to drill two new holes in junction boxes because #10 wire wouldn't fit into the single gland nut used for the original wires which were #14 by my guess.

I also added MC-4 connectors to the remaining pair of wires in my SO cord.

Using some Renogy parallel MC-4 connectors I "paralleled" the wires in the SO cord by plugging them into the adapter and then plugging the adapter into the #10 wires from junction box on panels and same size wire at solar input on TT.

Now, with same sun exposure I get a max of 155 watts input to my batteries which is 97% of panel rating.

The higher voltage (43 volt) from the panel, larger wire size, and use of the MPPT controller, is getting me all I can from my 160 watt panel array. So far it's been adequate to keep my batteries full as my power usage is modest.

If someone ever backs over my small panels or a hail storm destroys them I'll just find a couple larger panels and "plug them in". I'm ready for them with the larger wire.

As for the power cord, it takes up about as much room as my 30 amp cord so it's not all that huge.

[babock]

Sagecoach, I forget, did you end up with the MPPT solar controller or are you still using the PWM controller?

If you are using the PWM, figure max current at around 5A per 100W which would be 15A for perfectly aligned panels. 70% of that for flat mounted like you have which would be 10.5A. The average number of equivalent solar hours where we are is around 5. A little higher in summer and a little lower in winter. Figure we are around 4 or so now...maybe a little lower. I would expect you to get around 40AH for a day right now but that would be from sunup to sundown. You got around 30AH which sounds about right for your trip depending on when you started your drive and when it ended.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by babock

Sagecoach, I forget, did you end up with the MPPT solar controller or are you still using the PWM controller?

If you are using the PWM, figure max current at around 5A per 100W which would be 15A for perfectly aligned panels. 70% of that for flat mounted like you have which would be 10.5A. The average number of equivalent solar hours where we are is around 5. A little higher in summer and a little lower in winter. Figure we are around 4 or so now...maybe a little lower. I would expect you to get around 40AH for a day right now but that would be from sunup to sundown. You got around 30AH which sounds about right for your trip depending on when you started your drive and when it ended.

I am using the PWM currently because of the space issue in the trash cabinet. I think you said I could get another 2amps or more using the MTTP or 8-10 amps per day. May try the MTTP again on next trip. Do you think another panel is necessary? My system can handle it, but running the generator for an extra 10 minutes doesn’t seem to warrant the $180 expense.

[babock]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I am using the PWM currently because of the space issue in the trash cabinet. I think you said I could get another 2amps or more using the MTTP or 8-10 amps per day. May try the MTTP again on next trip. Do you think another panel is necessary? My system can handle it, but running the generator for an extra 10 minutes doesn’t seem to warrant the $180 expense.

If you have the room, why not? What is the PWM rated for?

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by babock

If you have the room, why not? What is the PWM rated for?

Both are 30 amps

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

I am using the PWM currently because of the space issue in the trash cabinet. I think you said I could get another 2amps or more using the MTTP or 8-10 amps per day. May try the MTTP again on next trip. Do you think another panel is necessary? My system can handle it, but running the generator for an extra 10 minutes doesn’t seem to warrant the $180 expense.

It's not just the 10 minutes a day, it's how many days you will run it for 10 minutes (or more). Days then turn into years and the relative cost of the panel goes way down.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

It's not just the 10 minutes a day, it's how many days you will run it for 10 minutes (or more). Days then turn into years and the relative cost of the panel goes way down.

I'm going to take Babock's suggestion and change out the solar controller and may get a new battery monitor. The battery monitor is a 2005 Xantrex and is coming up .3 amps and .2volts higher than what the solar controller reads and my multimeter at the battery. The battery management system built into the Battleborn's is cutting of amps going into it when the Xantrex battery monitor was showing negative 4-6 amps still needed for full charge. I was considering the Victron but I want to mount it in the trash cabinet and it's going to be too long for a surface mount. Plenty of ideal space next to the trash cabinet at the step well entry, but the DW doesn't want any gauges showing and more things lite up.

[babock]

You can put the monitor itself anywhere. Don't even have to mount it since you access it from your phone.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

We just made a trip to Yosemite where I could really test my Battleborn Lithium batteries. The batteries were fully charged when we left LA and were still fully charged when we arrived 6 hours later. My engine alternator and battery are totally disconnected from the systems PD 55amp original converter charger. The house lithium batteries were maintained driving by my 300 watt of solar panels.
First night, we used about 30 amps drawn off the Lithium batteries overnight and ran the generator for about 40 minutes while making breakfast. That recharged to about 6 amps. With the campsite shaded by trees, we were only able to reduce the draw and at 5pm were down 10amps. While cooking for dinner we were able to very quickly recover the 10amps using the generator.
2nd morning we awoke to about the same down about 30 amps and recovered down to about 6 amps again. We ran the generator at breakfast fully charging the batteries and then moved to a sunny campsite. It stayed fully charged all day, We were able to use our satellite and TV that evening.
Next morning we were down 42 amps. Didn't run the generator. We packed up and headed for home. When we arrived home my lithium batteries were still down 10 amps and the solar charged back 30 amps.
My main reason for getting the lithium batteries was to cut down generator use in Yosemite, especially in winter where the draw can get down to 70 amp in the morning with furnace use, satellite and TV. It worked fine.
Pros:
I was impressed by the fast recharging of the batteries with my original PD 55 amp converter charger. It would recharge at 35-42amps continually until fully charged, not like the flooded that would decrease the amps as the voltage rose. When in sunlight and using the generator, the solar adds to the amps recharging and input to the batteries has been as high as 50amps. Plus the various LEDs throughout the MH were brighter at night because of the 13.5 volts lithium versus the 12.3-12.5v flooded. Great night lights.
Cons:
None really for the batteries, but my solar not fully recharging the house batteries on the 6 hour trip home in full sunlight was disappointing. Perhaps I need to add another 100watt panel or run the generator for an hour either prior to or during the first hour of travel. Not really a big deal as it gets fully charged when we get home.
Special thanks to Babock for his input

With 300 watt solar, maximum output is about 18 amps. What I don't understand is the fear of charging Battle Born batteries with the alternator if you are willing to charge with the converter.

The alternator puts out about 14.3v same as the OEM converter. Only problem I see if the OEM BIRD does not disconnect from the coach batteries until 12.7v. The LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager from Battle Born disconnects at 13.4v.

I was able to modified my Battery Control Center to disconnect at 13.45v.
See thread My coach batteries stopped charging from the alternator. (Bad SDC-107A)


The engine alternator has more power than a 2,000 watt solar array. I routinely see 90 amps from the engine alternator. With the extra amps I run the fridge on 120v from the Inverter.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Just found out that the Victron app won't work on my iPhone 5c as I can't update my operating system 11, I'm stuck in 10.3.

[babock]

Don't you have an issue where the solar controller can overcharge the chassis battery?

Originally Posted by rk06382

With 300 watt solar, maximum output is about 18 amps. What I don't understand is the fear of charging Battle Born batteries with the alternator if you are willing to charge with the converter.

The alternator puts out about 14.3v same as the OEM converter. Only problem I see if the OEM BIRD does not disconnect from the coach batteries until 12.7v. The LiFePO4 Battery Isolation Manager from Battle Born disconnects at 13.4v.

I was able to modified my Battery Control Center to disconnect at 13.45v.
See thread My coach batteries stopped charging from the alternator. (Bad SDC-107A)


The engine alternator has more power than a 2,000 watt solar array. I routinely see 90 amps from the engine alternator. With the extra amps I run the fridge on 120v from the Inverter.

[catfish1953]

Thanks for the info. We are slowly learning and preparing for the future with both solar/battery upgrade and generator purchase.

[babock]

You have a tablet?

Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver

Just found out that the Victron app won't work on my iPhone 5c as I can't update my operating system 11, I'm stuck in 10.3.

[Sagecoachdriver]

Originally Posted by babock

You have a tablet?

I do and have the app loaded, thanks!