Battery cables getting hot

[ksgoosekillr]

Just purchased a 2004 Flagstaff 829RBSS, While plugged into shore power (30-15 amp reducer) at my home I noticed both the positive (red) and negative (white) cable were very hot to the touch at the battery. Also I am getting a decent spark from the negative post when hooking up. I checked the output voltage of the cables with the battery disconnected and read 13.6V-13.8V. The battery itself measured 12.0V.

IM new to the camping world but familiar with elec systems. I didn't have much time last night but a quick glace on the frame rail near the battery I saw what appeared to be two terminal strips, and a breakaway switch. I know when I picked up the trailer the battery had a higher voltage. Which tells me either the original owner left it plugged in and it is a bad battery or I have a slow draw.

The hot cables is what is bothering me and sparks. I know a bad cell in a battery can cause this (considering both pos and neg were hot), or I have a short (sparks). But I would think a short would only cause heat on one side not the circuit. I know the capacitor in the converter can thrown a spark in the beginning but should not continuously spark as you hook up the battery and move the ring terminal

So my question for those here that have been there, what is the trailer tying in with the terminal strips on the frame, I will obviously check for loose connections here and the all nearby areas. I know the breakaway switch can not be seated properly and allow voltage to escape but I would think with the battery at 12V I would feel the drag from the breaks. What else besides a bad battery would cause both cables to get overheated? I plan to have the batt tested over lunch, and buy a battery disconnect. I would like to know if there is something causing a battery failure before I ruin another battery. I know it could be from neglect from the previous owner. I am assuming the 13.6V I read would mean my converter is working propery in normal operation mode. I plan to hook up my new battery and test for amp draw this evening. IF there is a draw i'm going to isolate with fuse panel and label the functions since apparently FR does not want to share any diagrams.

The hot cables and sparking makes me want to look for loose connections and or shorts. I know I can remove fuses in the panel until the sparks stop then narrow down the circuit that is faulty. With that do a voltage drop test to find the faulty wire.

So what are your thoughts? oh and nice to meet everyone, new here.

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by ksgoosekillr

Which tells me either the original owner left it plugged in and it is a bad battery or I have a slow draw.

I literally don't know enough to answer anything else - but all campers have slow draws on them in the forms of propane/CO detectors, radio units, etc. For my fifth wheel, it'll drain my OEM battery in less than a week with seemingly nothing on. I installed a battery disconnect switch to kill the power to everything when store it.

[TURBS]

Your converter/charger trying to charge a bad battery may be a cause.

A bad or loose ground.

You also have to remember that the charger is constantly charging your battery as it never shuts off unless disconnected from shore power.

As mentioned you also have parasitic draws at all times on the battery.


Turbs

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Your converter/charger trying to charge a bad battery may be a cause.

A bad or loose ground.

You also have to remember that the charger is constantly charging your battery as it never shuts off unless disconnected from shore power.

As mentioned you also have parasitic draws at all times on the battery.


Turbs

that is kinda the direction I was leaning towards. THe sparking of the terminals though is what makes me think something more is going on. In general without the disconnect switch do most people see this due to the charge in the capacitor?

[TURBS]

Originally Posted by ksgoosekillr

that is kinda the direction I was leaning towards. THe sparking of the terminals though is what makes me think something more is going on. In general without the disconnect switch do most people see this due to the charge in the capacitor?

Do what exactly?

Also if you have a wfco converter/charger go to to library right next to user cp on the browser towards the top of this page in the green stripe and there's a trouble shooting guide for your charger under electronics
It may be that your charger is stuck in bulk mode over charging battery.


Turbs

[VinceU]

Originally Posted by ksgoosekillr

Just purchased a 2004 Flagstaff 829RBSS, While plugged into shore power (30-15 amp reducer) at my home I noticed both the positive (red) and negative (white) cable were very hot to the touch at the battery. Also I am getting a decent spark from the negative post when hooking up. I checked the output voltage of the cables with the battery disconnected and read 13.6V-13.8V. The battery itself measured 12.0V.

IM new to the camping world but familiar with elec systems. I didn't have much time last night but a quick glace on the frame rail near the battery I saw what appeared to be two terminal strips, and a breakaway switch. I know when I picked up the trailer the battery had a higher voltage. Which tells me either the original owner left it plugged in and it is a bad battery or I have a slow draw.

The hot cables is what is bothering me and sparks. I know a bad cell in a battery can cause this (considering both pos and neg were hot), or I have a short (sparks). But I would think a short would only cause heat on one side not the circuit. I know the capacitor in the converter can thrown a spark in the beginning but should not continuously spark as you hook up the battery and move the ring terminal

So my question for those here that have been there, what is the trailer tying in with the terminal strips on the frame, I will obviously check for loose connections here and the all nearby areas. I know the breakaway switch can not be seated properly and allow voltage to escape but I would think with the battery at 12V I would feel the drag from the breaks. What else besides a bad battery would cause both cables to get overheated? I plan to have the batt tested over lunch, and buy a battery disconnect. I would like to know if there is something causing a battery failure before I ruin another battery. I know it could be from neglect from the previous owner. I am assuming the 13.6V I read would mean my converter is working propery in normal operation mode. I plan to hook up my new battery and test for amp draw this evening. IF there is a draw i'm going to isolate with fuse panel and label the functions since apparently FR does not want to share any diagrams.

The hot cables and sparking makes me want to look for loose connections and or shorts. I know I can remove fuses in the panel until the sparks stop then narrow down the circuit that is faulty. With that do a voltage drop test to find the faulty wire.

So what are your thoughts? oh and nice to meet everyone, new here.

One clue you provided was the battery measured 12 volts, 13.6 under charge. Although the battery's common name is 12 volt that is not charged, should be more like 12.4-12.6 standing alone. The sparks you are simply the the charger doing its job.if it doesn't reach above 12 overnight with 13+ volts on it, the batt is probably gone.

[OldCoot]

Both cables being hot is a problem indicating a short somewhere probably in a battery or bad cable connections. Could be the cables are too small also or have several strands broken.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by VinceU

One clue you provided was the battery measured 12 volts, 13.6 under charge. Although the battery's common name is 12 volt that is not charged, should be more like 12.4-12.6 standing alone. The sparks you are simply the the charger doing its job.if it doesn't reach above 12 overnight with 13+ volts on it, the batt is probably gone.

actually I isolated the battery to check the output of the converter. I know that most batteries carry a higher than 12V charge, the closer to12 they go the worse the battery actually is.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by OldCoot

Both cables being hot is a problem indicating a short somewhere probably in a battery or bad cable connections. Could be the cables are too small also or have several strands broken.

I checked the cables thoroughly no broken strands or kinks and no corrosion. The cable size is something im concerned about. Usually a short downstream of battery results in overheating on pos or neg cable but not both at the same time usually just pos side

[TURBS]

Fyi you should have a 3 stage converter and with a good battery you should see
Bulk mode "highest voltage"
Absorption mode
And float mode "lowest out put voltage"

If your charger remains in bulk it will kill the battery.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Do what exactly?

Also if you have a wfco converter/charger go to to library right next to user cp on the browser towards the top of this page in the green stripe and there's a trouble shooting guide for your charger under electronics
It may be that your charger is stuck in bulk mode over charging battery.


Turbs

I have the troubleshooting guide for the WFCO 8995, and the manual. THe "three stage charger" actually a true two stage, normal (13.6V), bulk "boost" (14-14.4V), float stages (13.2V)... since I isolated the battery and checked the output of the converter at 13.6 I assume it is in normal mode. I would have a concern if when connected to the batter im reading a constant 14 or higher load then I will troubleshoot the converter. But since both cables are hot and the battery outside of the system after it was connected for a while still read 12.0V I want to make sure my battery does not have a bad cell. With a new battery, if I still see hot cables or read higher that 13.8V than I should start looking for loose connections and or converter troubles correct?

my question above was more about the sparks from connecting the battery? is this normal for an RV? shore or no shore supply wont the capacitor cause this regardless

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by f1100turbo

Fyi you should have a 3 stage converter and with a good battery you should see
Bulk mode "highest voltage"
Absorption mode
And float mode "lowest out put voltage"

If your charger remains in bulk it will kill the battery.



Attachment 34069

I had labeled the modes wrong in my last post was typing it when you posted this. I did some research on the converter before this post. The bulk mode should read 14 or higher correct?

[TURBS]

Nominal (Absorption Mode) 13.6 Vdc (includes charging and load)*- Boost (Bulk Mode)14.4 Vdc*- Trickle (Float Mode) 13.2 Vdc (after 48 hrs.)

[tanddc]

Sounds like your TV was not charging your battery on the drive home. Sparks are normal. I like watching my wife jump when she hooks up the battery . Terminals should not be getting hot. Do you have a good tight connection? Keep in mind that with your 30/15 converter, your system will still try to take all the power it wants. If you are using too much, you will get a low voltage situation.

[wbdvt]

I would suspect the battery. What is the date code on the battery? It may be the original battery. The conductors to the battery getting hot indicates that there is a lot of current draw, probably close to 20A. There should be a 20A fuse for the conductors going to the battery in the positive leg.

The reason I would suspect the battery is that if there was a short or damage in the wiring to the battery from the charger, when you disconnected the wire from the battery, a portion of the wire would stay hot. This would be the portion between the charger and the damaged/shorted wire.

However, since the wires are hot right at the battery, the battery is drawing all that current. While this would be normal for a severely discharged battery, the heavy current draw would level out and voltage will rise. Yours seems to be continuous if I followed the conversation correctly.

A battery with some plates shorted can still read 12 V but it's capacity is compromised and will draw a lot of current. If there is an Interstate Battery store near you, you could take the battery in and have it load tested. That will tell you the condition of the battery.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by tanddc

Sounds like your TV was not charging your battery on the drive home. Sparks are normal. I like watching my wife jump when she hooks up the battery . Terminals should not be getting hot. Do you have a good tight connection? Keep in mind that with your 30/15 converter, your system will still try to take all the power it wants. If you are using too much, you will get a low voltage situation.

IT can try and draw all the power it wants, the 15amp circuit on the garage outlet might not agree though

[tanddc]

Correct. The first thing that will happen is the voltage will drop and then the current will increase (making things hot). This will continue until you pop the breaker.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by wbdvt

I would suspect the battery. What is the date code on the battery? It may be the original battery. The conductors to the battery getting hot indicates that there is a lot of current draw, probably close to 20A. There should be a 20A fuse for the conductors going to the battery in the positive leg.

The reason I would suspect the battery is that if there was a short or damage in the wiring to the battery from the charger, when you disconnected the wire from the battery, a portion of the wire would stay hot. This would be the portion between the charger and the damaged/shorted wire.

However, since the wires are hot right at the battery, the battery is drawing all that current. While this would be normal for a severely discharged battery, the heavy current draw would level out and voltage will rise. Yours seems to be continuous if I followed the conversation correctly.

A battery with some plates shorted can still read 12 V but it's capacity is compromised and will draw a lot of current. If there is an Interstate Battery store near you, you could take the battery in and have it load tested. That will tell you the condition of the battery.

There should be little to zero load on the battery, it was overheating with nothing at all on in the trailer except the converter putting the charge on. I know the circuit in the garage is a 15 amp circuit so it would have thrown a breaker if it attempted any more than 15. The wires did not stay hot after the battery was removed. while connected to shore power.
Here in 15 min that is my plan to have it load tested and buy a cutoff switch.

[ksgoosekillr]

Originally Posted by tanddc

Correct. The first thing that will happen is the voltage will drop and then the current will increase (making things hot). This will continue until you pop the breaker.

The only thing that could increase the load would be the converter, something left on, or a short. Does anyone know offhand what the amperage output is for the converter

[wbdvt]

Originally Posted by ksgoosekillr

There should be little to zero load on the battery, it was overheating with nothing at all on in the trailer except the converter putting the charge on. I know the circuit in the garage is a 15 amp circuit so it would have thrown a breaker if it attempted any more than 15. The wires did not stay hot after the battery was removed. while connected to shore power.
Here in 15 min that is my plan to have it load tested and buy a cutoff switch.

The battery will only be supplying any current to loads when there is no shore power. Since the wires were hot when connected to shore power, that indicates the current flow is into the battery as the converter is providing power to any dc loads when connected to shore power.

I still think the problem is your battery.