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07-21-2019, 07:49 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 527
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Can 50Amp be less?
For all the electrician types on the forum, and I hope this isn't a stupid question. Do the two hot legs have to neccessarily be 50 amps each or can I get by with two 30 amp legs? At our seasonal site, the owner was thinking maybe he might have an extra 30 amp breaker in junction box that we may be able to use to get the two 30 amp legs to my 50 amp cable so I can run both air conditioners at once. I cannot think of any reason this wouldn't work, but I'm sure no electrician. Sure has been hot here! So jusy wondering if it is worth the effort. Thanks.
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07-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,916
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Can 50Amp be less?
You will just have 30 amps of useable service per leg.
Depends on the brand....you can prolly get a new one for less than $20. It would be worth to me to have a new breaker and the amp I wanted.
Btw. I have never even seen a picture of an electrician.
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07-21-2019, 08:09 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Alabama
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As long as he has the 30 amp capacity gauge wire #6 minimum, feeding each of the hot legs of the 50 amp receptacle on the pedestal, then you will be in good shape. That would supply you with a total of 60 amps (a normally wired 50 amp rv receptacle supplies a total of 100 amps).
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07-21-2019, 08:27 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: SW PA
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The two 30 amp legs would need to be on opposite phases of the distribution panel. If they are not you could overload the neutral line in your power cord and trailer wiring, as it would be possible to draw 60 amps on the neutral line, which is sized for 50 amps. Also the breakers should have a common trip.
If he is using a spare breaker in your pedestal most likely they would be on the same phase.
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07-21-2019, 08:34 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwannacamp
You will just have 30 amps of useable service per leg.
Depends on the brand....you can prolly get a new one for less than $20. It would be worth to me to have a new breaker and the amp I wanted.
Btw. I have never even seen a picture of an electrician.
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Thanks. Should be good at 30 amps per leg. Oh you've seen the pics, usually holding one of those meter thingys or a pair of pliars. Lol!
And I should add, a lot smarter than me!
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Tony & Brenda
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07-21-2019, 08:37 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowrideHD
As long as he has the 30 amp capacity gauge wire #6 minimum, feeding each of the hot legs of the 50 amp receptacle on the pedestal, then you will be in good shape. That would supply you with a total of 60 amps (a normally wired 50 amp rv receptacle supplies a total of 100 amps).
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Thanks, I'm thinking the 60 amp total would be plenty for my camper.
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Tony & Brenda
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07-21-2019, 08:39 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-W
The two 30 amp legs would need to be on opposite phases of the distribution panel. If they are not you could overload the neutral line in your power cord and trailer wiring, as it would be possible to draw 60 amps on the neutral line, which is sized for 50 amps. Also the breakers should have a common trip.
If he is using a spare breaker in your pedestal most likely they would be on the same phase.
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Thanks Steve-w, I'll be sure to check that out first and make sure he is pulling from the opposite phases. Great info.
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07-21-2019, 08:50 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 3,859
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what steve-w said is absolutely critical. you could overload the common neutral wire.
but how about 30 amps on one leg and 20 on the other? that would only put 50 amps max on the common neutral. for example our onan generator has a 20 amp and 30 amp breaker on the two legs and i have read that they are on the same phase. you would just be duplicating this. and the onan runs both a/c's just fine.
i a not a licensed electrician so this is just a thought until a qualified person reviews it!
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07-21-2019, 08:55 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: SW PA
Posts: 906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICKDOE
what steve-w said is absolutely critical. you could overload the common neutral wire.
but how about 30 amps on one leg and 20 on the other? that would only put 50 amps max on the common neutral. for example our onan generator has a 20 amp and 30 amp breaker on the two legs and i have read that they are on the same phase. you would just be duplicating this. and the onan runs both a/c's just fine.
i a not a licensed electrician so this is just a thought until a qualified person reviews it!
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30/20 amp would also work. Only problem (safety related) would be that you could have power on one leg and not the other due to not being able to have a common trip as the breakers are not the same amp rating.
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07-21-2019, 09:39 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Payson, AZ
Posts: 3,859
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interesting topic but it has to be done safely! both for you and for the owner! the fact that he thinks he might be able to do it is a bit suspect. but i'm sure there is a way.
but before you go further do you have an EMS in you power supply? does it show the amps being used? plug in a 30 to 50 amp adapter and measure the amps being used on both legs when you run the a/c's. you may find that you can run both. if you can the question would be how close to the 30 amp limit are you?
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07-21-2019, 09:52 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICKDOE
interesting topic but it has to be done safely! both for you and for the owner! the fact that he thinks he might be able to do it is a bit suspect. but i'm sure there is a way.
but before you go further do you have an EMS in you power supply? does it show the amps being used? plug in a 30 to 50 amp adapter and measure the amps being used on both legs when you run the a/c's. you may find that you can run both. if you can the question would be how close to the 30 amp limit are you?
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Don't have the EMS, just portable surge protectors with the green lights. I am going to add an AC and a DC meter to rig to monitor both voltage and current when in either system. Now, is there an inexpensive AC meter that will show current on both legs. Guess its time for internet search.
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07-22-2019, 08:16 AM
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#12
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Always Learning
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Four Corners, FL
Posts: 21,888
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Isn't 30amp 3-wire and 50amp is 4-wire?
We debated doing this at my father-in-law's house. He already had 220 ran to a welder in his garage. But the wire that ran up to it didn't have separate ground and neutrals or something.
Ha! I posted about it here:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...er-164410.html
In another case, my buddy did run the proper gauge wire for 220 x 30amp service with a 50amp receptacle. Kind of like you're asking here. Gives him 60 usable amps. But it all starts with the right wire.
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07-22-2019, 08:23 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Englewood FL
Posts: 2,797
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Single trip two pole breaker would by definition be on separate "phases". You can wire a 50 amp outlet with two 30 amp feeds. Both would be 4 wire. #10 is fine for 30 amps.
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07-22-2019, 08:30 AM
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#14
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Site Team
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,243
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This can be done but isn't the best idea as the campground owner will be installing a 50A outlet in the pedestal that only has dual 30A service. It is possible it may violate an electrical code.
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07-22-2019, 08:32 AM
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#15
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Pickin', Campin', Mason
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 19,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein
Single trip two pole breaker would by definition be on separate "phases". You can wire a 50 amp outlet with two 30 amp feeds. Both would be 4 wire. #10 is fine for 30 amps.
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^^^^All the information needed is right there^^^^
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07-22-2019, 08:33 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 172
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seems like there'll be some wring to do...why don't you wire a 50amp receptacle? no problems for the next guy or you.
The problem I have with doing these kinds of things in an unconventional way is after a bit of time passes no one can remember. Then when some goes amiss there is time spent trying to figure out what was done.
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07-22-2019, 08:40 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 4,508
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What size generator do you have? My Onan 5500 is supposed to deliver 45 amps total and has a 30 amp breaker on each circuit. If you have the same generator then you can run everything that the generator can run.
The fellow's note about the circuits needing to be on opposite phases to not overload the neutral line was very good and something many people would overlook.
I installed the hard-wired Progressive Industries 50 amp EMS as one of the first things and before the first trip. It's a bit of a bear to do by yourself due to the heavy wire. Having a helper to hold the cables helps a lot.
Having it hard-wired not only protects it from theft, it also protects against a problem with your own power cable.
It shows the voltage and current draw per circuit as well.
Ray
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07-22-2019, 09:04 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Englewood FL
Posts: 2,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob
This can be done but isn't the best idea as the campground owner will be installing a 50A outlet in the pedestal that only has dual 30A service. It is possible it may violate an electrical code.
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Might be but NEC is pretty vague on this. I believe that the outlet must meet or exceed the feed circuit, rather than exactly match it. I also bet that most 50 amp RVs would never know the difference. AS far as confusion, the breaker is 12 inches away and obviously 30 amps.
On second thought, a 50 amp receptacle states that it accepts wire sizes from #10 to #4...sounds like 30 amps is OK.
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07-22-2019, 12:38 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Jefferson, GA
Posts: 130
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In some of our Georgia state parks, the power pedestal will have two 30 amp outlets and receptacles. I bought an adapter cord on Amazon that plugs into the two 30 amp receptacles and then has a 50 amp outlet to plug the trailer into. I'll be trying it out on our trip in August, and hope that it gives me 30 amps on each leg, and with proper electrical management in the trailer, the ability to run both A/C units.
Here is a link to the adapter: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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07-22-2019, 12:40 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Englewood FL
Posts: 2,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bleu
I'll be trying it out on our trip in August, and hope that it gives me 30 amps on each leg, and with proper electrical management in the trailer, the ability to run both A/C units...
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Might want to put a voltmeter on the 50 amp plug and verify if you see 230 volts, indicating that the two 30 amp plugs are on different split phases. Otherwise you run the risk of overloading the neutral in your power cord.
Beyond that it should work just fine.
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