Charging while dry camping.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by Denny.L

And our "walk through" guy at the dealership just did a "speed" version of the walk-through. He got really aggravated when we asked questions...so we just said "the hell with it" and let him finish so we could get it home and do our own homework.

Hahaha, your guy would have MURDERED me! I asked so many questions, video taped, and slid around beneath trailer with a mechanics creeper (glad I did, flush hose to black tank was crimped), it took over 4 hours.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by NJKris

Hahaha, your guy would have MURDERED me! I asked so many questions, video taped, and slid around beneath trailer with a mechanics creeper (glad I did, flush hose to black tank was crimped), it took over 4 hours.

I didn't give the Dealer a check until I finished my inspection/walk through. I asked as many questions as I wanted and figured they'd either answer them or they wouldn't get my money. I figured that if the employee walking through with me didn't like it, the Dealer could supply another employee until I was satisfied everything was inspected.

Never fork over the money before inspection.

[Adrian Gordon]

I'm confused by your statement. You talk about a trickle charger. Don't you have a converter in your unit? I don't really know your model RV. Also, do you have an inverter that is going to change the 12 volt DC from your battery into 110 V AC?

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Adrian Gordon

I'm confused by your statement. You talk about a trickle charger. Don't you have a converter in your unit? I don't really know your model RV. Also, do you have an inverter that is going to change the 12 volt DC from your battery into 110 V AC?

The OP doesn't state what brand they have but it's probably either a Salem or Wildwood Xlite, which are twin brands.
Neither come with a factory inverter.

[Denny.L]

Originally Posted by bikendan

The OP doesn't state what brand they have but it's probably either a Salem or Wildwood Xlite, which are twin brands.
Neither come with a factory inverter.

FR Wildwood 2019 X-LITE 241RLXL

[Stevejfy]

Originally Posted by bikendan

First, having spent 35 years camping at California State, being properly equipped for dry camping, is a must.

And you are NOT properly equipped.

1st, you most certainly have a cheap dual purpose marine battery from the dealer. This is not enough battery nor a proper battery for dry camping, for more than one night. The propane furnace alone, can easily empty that battery before the morning arrives.

2nd, your dealer did NOT properly explain to you, how your 12v DC and 110v AC electrical systems work. Unless you had the dealer hardwire an inverter into the electrical system, your outlets, tv and blanket won't work on battery power.

3rd, just plug the shore cord into your generator to recharge the battery. The onboard converter will recharge the battery.
What generator do you have? I hope it's not an open frame contractor-style generator!

Your dealer didn't do you any favors, by not explaining this stuff to you. But that's pretty typical of the California RV dealers I dealt with, sorry to say.

And NO generators, during the night, is pretty much standard, unless you're boondocking on BLM land or the desert.

Don't even run a generator at night. I can be heard hundreds of yards away.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Stevejfy

Don't even run a generator at night. I can be heard hundreds of yards away.

I have never seen any public campground that allowed generators running overnight. They all had quiet night hours and many have limits on generator usage during daytime.
I guess you didn't read the original post that said they had 8-8 quiet hours, to deal with.. So no one ever mentioned running a generator during the night.

So if you know of one that does, please post the name.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Beachbourbon

Lots of good replies...I will add that during the day you can plug a portable battery charger like this into your generator and attach to your battery to bring it back up. Then your converter can maintain it from there.

https://www.harborfreight.com/10250-...art-60653.html

These can be had for $29 on sale and work great.

I wasn't pleased with mine. I would not recommend it. The first time I needed to use it was when someone left car headlights on overnight and drained the battery.

The charger would not charge! It would provide no output at all! The reason is that the designer decided to eliminate the 6-12 volt switch and "automatically" sense the voltage. Something like, if the battery voltage was above 8 volts or so, he would charge it with 14 volts. If it was above 4 volts and below 6.5 volts the charger would provide 7 volts.

In this case, the voltage was below 4 volts and the charger gave no output at all. It was easy for me to roll out a 25-foot extension cord and the charger. It was a real pain to string together two sets of jumper cables to reach another car for a jump.

I don't know what that designer was thinking. If it were me (and I was a designer for decades), in that instance I would have charged the battery at constant current (say, 20 amps) for 20 minutes and then re-run the voltage test. Repeat after another 20 minutes if necessary.

And before someone asks "What about a battery with an open cell?", the answer is "Trying to push 20 amps through an open circuit would cause the charger to go to the voltage limit--time to light the red lamp labelled 'Battery Fault.'"

Willing to trade this charger to anyone local for a real one. It does support an AGM charging profile.

Larry

[Jakieboy]

Back in the day when we were dry camping in our pop-up trailer, we never had a built-in furnace. We often camped in the local mountains when temperatures dropped into the 20's. We always carried two extra sleeping bags to spread out on the bed, and always brought at least two big dogs to sleep in bed with us. Samoyeds and Yellow Labs work best!!

[slipf18]

There’s a reason campgrounds enforce quiet hours. Think about it.

[pdqparalegal1]

Originally Posted by NoviBill

A fair 12v battery will hold 800 to 1000 watt hours (watts for one hour). A blanket will use about 200 watts so 800/200 is 4 hours of blanket. You would be much better off with a good comforter and use the gas heater in your camper. Also most batteries (except true deep cycles) will not survive more than a few full cycles (fully charged to full discharged), you are better off not draining them completely. LED lights only use a few watts and will run days or weeks. The heater might be 50 watts (fan) but only runs part time. You can get 2-3 days of heat and light from the battery if you use only the lights and gas heater. No one wants to hear generators running day or night.

To me, generator is white noise. And it runs my oxygen concentrator.

[dkazzed]

A second 12V would help but you should run the furnace rather than use an electric blanket.

[Beachbourbon]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

I wasn't pleased with mine. I would not recommend it. The first time I needed to use it was when someone left car headlights on overnight and drained the battery.

The charger would not charge! It would provide no output at all! The reason is that the designer decided to eliminate the 6-12 volt switch and "automatically" sense the voltage. Something like, if the battery voltage was above 8 volts or so, he would charge it with 14 volts. If it was above 4 volts and below 6.5 volts the charger would provide 7 volts.

In this case, the voltage was below 4 volts and the charger gave no output at all. It was easy for me to roll out a 25-foot extension cord and the charger. It was a real pain to string together two sets of jumper cables to reach another car for a jump.

I don't know what that designer was thinking. If it were me (and I was a designer for decades), in that instance I would have charged the battery at constant current (say, 20 amps) for 20 minutes and then re-run the voltage test. Repeat after another 20 minutes if necessary.

And before someone asks "What about a battery with an open cell?", the answer is "Trying to push 20 amps through an open circuit would cause the charger to go to the voltage limit--time to light the red lamp labelled 'Battery Fault.'"

Willing to trade this charger to anyone local for a real one. It does support an AGM charging profile.

Larry

It has 3 settings, one being jumpstart. Did you use that feature? Did it work?The other is charge and the third is trickle.

However, this is not called the Frankenstein’s charger for a reason. It will not charge a dead beyond redemption battery (I’ve tried), and I have yet to find a charger that will reserect a battery from the dead.

If anyone knows a charger to make a beyond the useful life battery useful again for less than the cost of a new battery, I’d love to hear about it.

[Beachbourbon]

Originally Posted by pdqparalegal1

To me, generator is white noise. And it runs my oxygen concentrator.

You are the exception...most of us can’t stand to hear a generator droning on indefinitely or while we are trying to sleep. Please be courteous and avoid noise pollution while camping. Thank you.

[jimmoore13]

Echoing many others:

Your RV's built in converter/charger is more than up to the job of charging your battery. Most have a minimum of three stages of charging. This not only charges but properly manages the battery.

FORGET THE 120 VOLT APPLIANCES ON a single group 24 flooded cell (conventional marine or deep cycle) battery.

That size battery is rated for about 80 AMP HOURS (AH). You only get to use half without damaging the battery. So assume you begin with a FULLY charged battery that has a usable capacity of 40 AH. That's it, that's all.

If you used the furnace, assume it draws between 3 and 5 amps per hour (AH). On a cold night, let's assume a 50% duty cycle...running half the time. In our popup (PUP) that's typical. Let's assume 8 hours of having the furnace on. So 8 hours divided by 2 (50% duty cycle) = 4 hours. 4 hours X 5 amps = 20 AH. That's HALF of your battery.

Now let's assume you have a 120 volt appliance like your electric blanket. My electric blanket draws 360 Watts. How do we turn that to AH? Simple. Use this calculator (click for hyperlink). The key is that if you are running on battery, regardless of the voltage of the appliance, the voltage is always 12 volts. 360 watts drawing off 12 volts = 30 amps. That's 30 AMPS PER HOUR. You only have 40 to start with, so you get to run the blanket for all of 1 hour and 20 minutes, then you're done...as in NO battery left without harming it.

I have solar...highly recommended. It only charges at a peak rate of about 7.5 amps in full sun, but it's relentless. It provides some charge from sunup to sundown, and I go to bed every night with a full group 24 12 volt battery.
I ONLY boondock...I never go to parks with hookups of any type.

But I'm also VERY frugal with power. I do NOT use the camper lights. I have a propane mantle lantern and several LED portable lanterns. I never use the stereo. I keep the removable face plate off due to parasitic losses from the LED display. I listen to music with a rechargeable blue tooth speaker.

What runs: water pump, furnace, spark ignition on the fridge, hot water heater, and furnace, parasitic losses from the carbon monoxide/propane detector. I do not "charge" my battery with the generator, but I DO run the generator for about 15 to 20 minutes in the morning and early evening to run the microwave and espresso machine to make lattes. So it pushes a little charge into the battery while it's getting heavy use from the two appliances. We have a 400 watt 12-volt to 120 volt inverter. On cold nights, we pre-warm the bed with the electric blanket for 20 minutes...that's all. That sucks 10 AH or so out of the 40 available. We need the rest for the furnace and other stuff.

If you must watch TV, prepare to invest in a serious battery bank. And make sure you have a 12-Volt TV...not 120 volts as most inexpensive RVs provide.
This would be a serious battery bank: 2 x 6 volt golf cart batteries in series to make 12 volts. Trojan is THE brand. Those batteries together will deliver about 125 USABLE AH. (Two 6-volt batteries in series will double their individual voltage, but will NOT double the AH.) If you invest in the batteries, then upgrade your solar to at least two, and preferably 3 x 100 watt panels. 4 would be even better.

You CAN easily boondock with a single 12 volt group 24, but you must adjust your expectations as above. And, without solar, prepare to listen to your generator drone on for hours and hours, because you will need to recharge at LEAST every other day assuming you are very frugal with power.

And, as others have said, your existing 120 volt circuits in the camper only run when you're plugged into shore power or your generator. To get 120 volts out of your battery, you need an inverter that will supply power to only the outlets on its panel or potentially feed an outlet or two in the rig. Unlikely that this is built in if you have the "tiny" little battery in your RV.
Big motor homes and fifth wheels tend to have these.

Lastly, if you're made of money, get BattleBorn Lithium Iron (LiFe) batteries. At about a kilobuck per, they'll set you back a bit, but they can deliver many more AH/discharge. But don't forget to upgrade to a suitable converter/charger so you don't ruin them.

Turn out the lights. Turn off the TV. Get some cheap LED lanterns at Costco, and light a campfire and camp. (or use a propane fire pit if there are fire bans). In short, camp. There's nothing on TV worth watching anyway.

If you have 56 gallons of fresh water aboard, plan to cope with toting grey water...perhaps to a pit toilet or bathroom. A 5 gallon bucket will do nicely. Your black tank will last longer than virtually any camping trip. We get 5 days out of a 12 gallon black tank. But we must dump our 12 gallon grey tank at least once a day...two buckets, which equates to about 8 gallons so it doesn't spill. In the real boondocks, we water the trees with the grey water...it's only sink and shower water....but that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

If your grey tank and black tank merge into a single dump valve, that black tank dump valve is contaminated with human waste. Install a second dump in the grey line to allow "clean" dumping of grey water when you're in the boonies. You can always "save some" to flush out your black tank hose at the end of the trip.

Boondocking is addictive. I have no interest in RV parks. But it takes preparation and commitment...and a tiny bit of understanding about batteries, charging, and power consumption.
Enjoy your rig!

[hiinthesky]

I hope my question doesn't hi-jack the thread. Would I be gaining anything by plugging the trailer into the generator and a battery charger to the batteries and generator???

[babock]

Originally Posted by hiinthesky

I hope my question doesn't hi-jack the thread. Would I be gaining anything by plugging the trailer into the generator and a battery charger to the batteries and generator???

In general no. If the wiring between the converter has too much voltage drop, a charger closer to the battery may help. If you have that issue, upgrade the wiring to a larger gauge or move the converter closer to the batteries.


Also remember, just because your converter can output a certain number of amps, doesn't mean your batteries can accept that many amps. For example, charging a set of 6V golf cart batteries that are at 50% SOC, will take way over 8 hours no matter what you are charging it with to get it to 100% so don't think you are doing much in a couple of hours. One of the reasons AGM are so much better. They can charge at 20%.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery




Trojan recommends 10-13% of the C20 rating. Therefore if you have a 220AH battery bank, you are charging at 22 to 29 amps.


page 17

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tr...UsersGuide.pdf

[dward51]

Originally Posted by Adrian Gordon

I'm confused by your statement. You talk about a trickle charger. Don't you have a converter in your unit? I don't really know your model RV. Also, do you have an inverter that is going to change the 12 volt DC from your battery into 110 V AC?

Originally Posted by babock

Why don't you use your converter? Even the crappy WFCO converters that come with almost every TT are better than that?

Originally Posted by babock

In general no. If the wiring between the converter has too much voltage drop, a charger closer to the battery may help. If you have that issue, upgrade the wiring to a larger gauge or move the converter closer to the batteries.

X4 on the "why not use the converter instead of a trickle charger?". Most trailer converters for units in the 24' range are going to be 55 amp. That should recharge the battery fairly quickly on the generator in the daytime.

If the built in converter/charger is not doing the job in a few hours something is wrong. Or are you using a smaller charger at the battery?

And Babock is right, a lot of converters are at one end of the trailer and it's 28' feet or more of wire to the batteries, often 6 gauge. Add in some slight corrosion on the terminals and you might get 11.5v charging if you are lucky.

So a couple of follow up questions:

1) What is your trailer converter amperage.

2) How far is it from the converter to the battery

3) what gauge wire do you have from the converter to the battery (look for a self resetting breaker near the battery on the trailer frame and then look at the wire that goes from there under the trailer.

4) What charger are you using? The converter or another one plugged into the generator (or are you using the DC output from the generator)?

Also for dry camping I would go with a multiple 6v golf cart battery setup. 2 6v golf cart batteries would replace a single 12v (not in size, but in functionality of providing 12v DC). And golf cart batteries will run a lot longer (and are made for deeper discharge). If you dry camp a lot and have the space and can manage the tongue weight 4 6v golf cart batteries wired with 2 sets of 2 in series to provide 12v output would be ideal.


Tell us more about what you have first though. (photos?)

[bareftn]

wow seems to me why go dry camping if your worried about the cold and using all of you batt? wait till its warmer or go someplace and plugin.

Dry camping to me would be like staying in a motel with black and white tv no air and no pool.

[FFred]

A 12V electric sheet is far more efficient than a house electric blanket.

It uses 1/4 the electric and warms better as the blankets etc on top hold in the heat.

Many folks will use it for 10-15 min to climb into a warm bunk , and again if the bunk gets cold .
Electro Warmth | You Sleep On Them, not Under Them !

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