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Old 06-23-2019, 12:41 PM   #1
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Converter charger issue going to Lithium batteries

My Forester has the Progressive Dynamics 60 amp standard converter charger. If I go to Lithium batteries, I was told I needed to upgrade my solar controller to one with Lithium mode, which I have done. I would have the option of buying new guts for my existing PG converter charger with Lithium mode only and would have to purchase a battery isolator so as not to overcharge the engine battery. Another option is to keep the existing PG 60amp regular converter charger and and use the charge wizard to boost the charging to 14.4.
Questions
1. Staying with existing converter charger, will the solar controller charge the overcharge, properly charge or do nothing to the engine battery?
2. Also staying with the existing converter charge, will it continue to charge both the coach and engine battery while on shoreline or generator power going thru the Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager?
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:07 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Sagecoachdriver View Post
My Forester has the Progressive Dynamics 60 amp standard converter charger. If I go to Lithium batteries, I was told I needed to upgrade my solar controller to one with Lithium mode, which I have done. I would have the option of buying new guts for my existing PG converter charger with Lithium mode only and would have to purchase a battery isolator so as not to overcharge the engine battery. Another option is to keep the existing PG 60amp regular converter charger and and use the charge wizard to boost the charging to 14.4.
Questions
1. Staying with existing converter charger, will the solar controller charge the overcharge, properly charge or do nothing to the engine battery?
2. Also staying with the existing converter charge, will it continue to charge both the coach and engine battery while on shoreline or generator power going thru the Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager?
My advice is to start with a Victron BMV-712 battery monitor. You can monitor both the coach & starter batteries.

As to the factory converter/charger, I had a Progressive Dynamics (PD9270V) 70 Amp Power Converter. But there was a 40 amp circuit breaker between it & the battery control center. If you install a new Lithium charger. mount it closer to the batteries. I can recharge my Battle Born batteries at 100 amps with my Samlex EVO-2212 Inverter/Charger.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:08 PM   #3
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Which model of Progressive Dynamic's converter do you have. If it's a PD 9100 series you can purchase a small module that gets attached to the TCMS port and it locks output to 14.4 or 14.6 volts. It costs about $8.

If I's a PD 9200 series just use the Pendant to lock the charger into Boost Mode. If you don't have the pendant, it's about $12.

Spoke with both Progressive Dynamics Tech Rep and Battleborn Customer Service. These are both suitable "hacks".

If you buy a new PD Converter for LiFePo batteries it is just a single voltage charger at 14.6 volts. No worry about overcharging batteries as the BMS keeps them from overcharging.


Battleborn suggests that the batteries be fully charged and then disconnected (switch off) when not needed (shore power or storage).
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:59 PM   #4
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Which model of Progressive Dynamic's converter do you have. If it's a PD 9100 series you can purchase a small module that gets attached to the TCMS port and it locks output to 14.4 or 14.6 volts. It costs about $8.

If I's a PD 9200 series just use the Pendant to lock the charger into Boost Mode. If you don't have the pendant, it's about $12.

Spoke with both Progressive Dynamics Tech Rep and Battleborn Customer Service. These are both suitable "hacks".

If you buy a new PD Converter for LiFePo batteries it is just a single voltage charger at 14.6 volts. No worry about overcharging batteries as the BMS keeps them from overcharging.


Battleborn suggests that the batteries be fully charged and then disconnected (switch off) when not needed (shore power or storage).
I can’t seem to disconnect the the coach batteries. The cut off switch doesn’t kill everything. I have the PD 4160 and the charge wizard button is on the panel next to fuses and circuit breaker. How often do I need to hit the charge wizard, once, twice, three times a day or more?
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:48 AM   #5
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Correction, I have the PD4560, no Lithium. Can upgrade to PD4560LiCVS.
Going to call both BB and PD today and find out more about leaving the PD4560 in and what I would need to do to and when to charge the Lithium batteries and how the engine alternator plays in all this. Will the BIM allow the same old bi-directional charging so the alternator will charge the Lithium batteries and when I connect to shore power or use the genny it will charge both house and engine. I can always use the fused disconnect next to the engine battery to isolate it.
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:48 AM   #6
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Got my questions answered by BB.
I can keep my existing PD4560 converter charger and use it to charge the house Lithium batteries. I will need to hit the charge wizard each every time I want to charge the house batteries when on shoreline or genny power. This should fully charge the house batteries. It will not charge the engine battery properly and itshould be isolated either by switch or a battery to battery device.
If I change the PD4560 to Lithium model, I still need to isolate the engine battery or purchase the B to B device.
The B to B device is made by Sterling and costs $320. The cost of the PD456Li upgrade is $212, so an additional $532.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:44 PM   #7
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My advice is to start with a Victron BMV-712 battery monitor. You can monitor both the coach & starter batteries.

As to the factory converter/charger, I had a Progressive Dynamics (PD9270V) 70 Amp Power Converter. But there was a 40 amp circuit breaker between it & the battery control center. If you install a new Lithium charger. mount it closer to the batteries. I can recharge my Battle Born batteries at 100 amps with my Samlex EVO-2212 Inverter/Charger.
I agree 100% about the BMV-712, I monitor both my coach and starter batteries at all times. I replaced the PD-4060 converter with the PD-4060LICSV. I also replaced the Zamp Solar Controller with one that has a Lithium Profile. My starter battery charges to 13.6V then charging stops with an audible click from the BIM. I control the converter charging by shutting off the converter AC circuit breaker when not needed. Works for me.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:39 PM   #8
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Got my questions answered by BB.
I can keep my existing PD4560 converter charger and use it to charge the house Lithium batteries. I will need to hit the charge wizard each every time I want to charge the house batteries when on shoreline or genny power. This should fully charge the house batteries. It will not charge the engine battery properly and it should be isolated either by switch or a battery to battery device.
If I change the PD4560 to Lithium model, I still need to isolate the engine battery or purchase the B to B device.
The B to B device is made by Sterling and costs $320. The cost of the PD456Li upgrade is $212, so an additional $532.
I can see the need for the PD456Li upgrade but I question the $320. You have a Battery control Center that isolates the Coach & Starter batteries. Your engine alternator is at least 120 amps & produces up to 14.5v. You just need to monitor your starter battery water levels.

I am using my OEM Battery Control Center without any problem. I have seen 90 amps coming from my engine alternator as I drive down the road. Two Battle Born batteries can handle a 100 amp charge.

I installed my Battle Born batteries in May 2018 and the Victron BMV-712 in Aug 2018. I have driven 4,500 miles since May 2018.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:31 AM   #9
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I am using my OEM Battery Control Center without any problem. I have seen 90 amps coming from my engine alternator as I drive down the road. Two Battle Born batteries can handle a 100 amp charge.

2018.

If i understood Battle Born, that isolator between Truck and Lithium batteries is to protect the TRUCK as the electrical system cannot take the 100% duty cycle at full demand on the Alternator. A pair of Battle Borns in parallel, can take a charge of 200 AMPS for a couple hours straight. The devise takes the Alternator off line intermittently and gives the ALT a break. If you have enough solar and can afford to simply Isolate the truck from the house--bingo $320 saved.
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Old 06-26-2019, 08:51 AM   #10
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If i understood Battle Born, that isolator between Truck and Lithium batteries is to protect the TRUCK as the electrical system cannot take the 100% duty cycle at full demand on the Alternator. A pair of Battle Borns in parallel, can take a charge of 200 AMPS for a couple hours straight. The devise takes the Alternator off line intermittently and gives the ALT a break. If you have enough solar and can afford to simply Isolate the truck from the house--bingo $320 saved.
Yes, that was a good option and easy to do by just pushing the red button on the fuse/switch at engine battery. if my solar can't do the job because of overcast, rain, or darkness I can always run the generator while driving for a few hour.
But the issue of keeping the engine battery charged is now an issue. Shoreline power now keeps the engine battery and the house batteries charged with the bi-directional charging capabilities of the Precision Circuits BIM. Obviously utilizing the fuse/switch on the engine battery will not keep the engine battery charged. Only charging of the engine battery will be from the alternator or hooking up a battery tender. Issue now is how to charge the engine battery while dry camping. There is some parisitic drain coming from somewhere as the engine voltage drops down to 12.3v after a few days. Maybe get a small solar system to keep the engine battery charged? Crazy to spend so much money on a system that has issues like this. I saw Babcock's system in his TT and it's so easy with no issues. Mine gets so complex with little room for the batteries and adding a buss bar, room for the MTTP controller in trash cabinet and the engine battery issues isolation and charging issue. If I need the engine battery boost from house batteries, I could just reconnect the engine and house batteries for a moment and hit the boost button under the driver's seat to start the engine and then disconnect, right?
I am currently running a test on the new engine battery to see how quickly the voltage drops.
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:59 PM   #11
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If i understood Battle Born, that isolator between Truck and Lithium batteries is to protect the TRUCK as the electrical system cannot take the 100% duty cycle at full demand on the Alternator. A pair of Battle Borns in parallel, can take a charge of 200 AMPS for a couple hours straight. The devise takes the Alternator off line intermittently and gives the ALT a break. If you have enough solar and can afford to simply Isolate the truck from the house--bingo $320 saved.
100ah Battle Borns can recharge at 50 amps per battery. Two parallel Battle Borns could recharge at 100 amps.

See Expanding compartment space for 2200 Watt Inverter/Charger for info on my install.
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Old 06-27-2019, 04:30 PM   #12
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Got my questions answered by BB.
I can keep my existing PD4560 converter charger and use it to charge the house Lithium batteries. I will need to hit the charge wizard each every time I want to charge the house batteries when on shoreline or genny power. This should fully charge the house batteries. It will not charge the engine battery properly and itshould be isolated either by switch or a battery to battery device.
If I change the PD4560 to Lithium model, I still need to isolate the engine battery or purchase the B to B device.
The B to B device is made by Sterling and costs $320. The cost of the PD456Li upgrade is $212, so an additional $532.
One solution would be to permanently isolate the engine/starter battery from coach system. Then install a battery minder/tender that maintains coach battery when plugged into shore power or running generator.

These battery tenders are less than half the cost of a sterling or similar devices.

This way you have a less expensive charger designed for the lead acid battery, a charger for your lithium, and more money left in your wallet.
Also, lifepo batteries, according to Battleborn, do better when floated at lower voltages. Just push the button when you want a full charge and save your money on the new charger.
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Old 06-27-2019, 06:47 PM   #13
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One solution would be to permanently isolate the engine/starter battery from coach system. Then install a battery minder/tender that maintains coach battery when plugged into shore power or running generator.

These battery tenders are less than half the cost of a sterling or similar devices.

This way you have a less expensive charger designed for the lead acid battery, a charger for your lithium, and more money left in your wallet.
Also, lifepo batteries, according to Battleborn, do better when floated at lower voltages. Just push the button when you want a full charge and save your money on the new charger.
Thanks. that's what I am going to do. Precision Circuits tolds me where to disconnect the engine battery/alternator cable coming into the BIM. But when I told him about the resettable fuse next to the battery, he said that's much easier.
I also already have a BatteryMinder from my days with my Class C Winnebago. No bi-directional charging. So I already have the wiring with the SAE connector attached the engine pos and neg ready to go. Just need to plug it in above the sofa and cord is long enough. Bus bar coming tomorrow for simple connection to Lithium batteries.
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Old 07-03-2019, 12:17 PM   #14
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Converter charger issue going to Lithium batteries

We must be on the same page here I am going through the exact steps you are. So this thread is great timing.
I spoke to BB and they advised a Battery Isolator & A new Charge Converter that can handle lithium.

I wis thinking of not connecting to my alternator, but upgrading the Converter Charger for a two hundred dollars
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:32 PM   #15
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I wonder if there is a way to add a switch or two to go from Battery Isolation manager to Lithium only and engine battery only and keep my PD4560 converter charger. Changing out the PD4560 to lithium model makes it unusable to charge engine battery.
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Old 07-03-2019, 03:53 PM   #16
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I wonder if there is a way to add a switch or two to go from Battery Isolation manager to Lithium only and engine battery only and keep my PD4560 converter charger. Changing out the PD4560 to lithium model makes it unusable to charge engine battery.
I think you are worrying to much. I have seen 14.5v coming from the engine alternator.

It is more important to have the proper charger for the Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries than the engine battery.

Contact the manufacturer of the BCC (BIRD or Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay) to ask what to do to disable overcharging the engine battery.

I have been using my Samlex EVO-2212 Inverter/Charger for over a year without a problem. It is programmed to go into bulk for two hours, then switch to float. It is better than the un-programmable engine alternator.
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