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Old 07-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnaraG_1M View Post
Shore.
Don't even own a 3.6KW inverter.....Or even a 1.8KW one.....

cheer,
johnd
OK, how would a 3600 or 1800W generator come into the conversation?

My concern would be a MSW inverter and a drill battery charger.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:40 PM   #12
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I am surprised to see the wires wrapped around the terminal screws and not plugged into the back which usually causes problems like this. Good thing you caught it.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratoga Camper View Post
OK, how would a 3600 or 1800W generator come into the conversation?

120V x 30A = ???
120V x 15A = ???


My concern would be a MSW inverter and a drill battery charger.
Why would that be? As I said the charger draws less that 1Ampere.
I.E. Less that 120watts.
Whether the AC waveform would be a problem for the charger
would depend on the power supply in the charger. Some designs
would have a problem, some not. But, it's not relevant as I answered
the OP question that I was on shore power.....

PS, I never mentioned a GENERATOR. If you read it again, you
will see that I said INVERTER. That is what the OP asked about
and that is what I answered........

cheers,
johnd
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:32 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coops1 View Post
I am surprised to see the wires wrapped around the terminal screws and not plugged into the back which usually causes problems like this. Good thing you caught it.
Amen to that. Both thoughts.

When I wire things, I just plain refuse to use the "push-in"
option and always use the screws. I don't know that a loose
connection was the original cause. They were tight when I
removed the outlet, but with all the heat generated corrosion
they may have "welded" tight. (Poor description, but maybe
you get the idea.

I cringe when I think of what might have happened in a few
more hours...........

cheers,
johnd
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:23 PM   #15
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Good call on not using the push-in termination. It's fast, but just WRONG! "Professionals" use them all the time!

I see another wire on the other terminal, which indicates that this receptacle was in the middle of a "pigtailed" wiring arrangement, and it was possible to draw current somewhere beyond these connections as well.

It also looks to be on the neutral (white) wires, as well.

Ever notice the little "bridge" between these two terminals? They're pretty small if you're drawing a lot of current (like a microwave oven) somewhere downstream, and they will generate some heat if this is the case.

What else was running in the rig at the time that is also 110-volt powered? Is that receptacle "downstream" of this?

Who is the manufacturer of this one?

Pop
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:56 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SpringerPop View Post
Good call on not using the push-in termination. It's fast, but just WRONG! "Professionals" use them all the time!
Yep.
Makes me ashamed to call myself a "Professional"!
Oh well, I'm retired; guess that makes me a Professional
HouseHubby to a working BOATY (Bride Of All These Years).


I see another wire on the other terminal, which indicates that this receptacle was in the middle of a "pigtailed" wiring arrangement, and it was possible to draw current somewhere beyond these connections as well.
Exactly right. The TT has one string for non-GFI outlets
(where this one was) and another string for GFI outlets.
Both strings are breakered at 15A.


It also looks to be on the neutral (white) wires, as well.
It was. You got D*** good eyes!!!

Ever notice the little "bridge" between these two terminals? They're pretty small if you're drawing a lot of current (like a microwave oven) somewhere downstream, and they will generate some heat if this is the case.
Yeah. One would hope that it was designed to handle the
current that the outlet was rated for.
But.............One would also hope to win the lottery.


What else was running in the rig at the time that is also 110-volt powered? Is that receptacle "downstream" of this?
This one "seems" to be mid-stream - that's just a resonable
guess. Nothing else was on the string. A small fan was on the
GFI string, but that don't count.....


Who is the manufacturer of this one?
Leviton.

Pop
I've seen this occasionally in house wiring, but the few cases
I know about had a more probable cause - damaged Plug or
outlet, - corrosion, etc.
This just is a "I don't know".

cheers,
johnd
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:11 PM   #17
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Of course, Leviton makes a few "grades" of duplex receptacles, and I'd bet this one was one of the cheaper, "bulk" ones. Still.....

This thread makes me want to go out and tear apart the 110-volt system and inspect EVERYTHING, then replace it all with "the good ones".

As I know you will do with this one.....

Happy "bullet" dodgin'!

Pop
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerPop View Post
Of course, Leviton makes a few "grades" of duplex receptacles, and I'd bet this one was one of the cheaper, "bulk" ones. Still.....
Given what I've seen in the rebuild of this TT, I'm totally sure that
the cheapest components were used......and abused by the installers.
Even the "quality" of my chinese tractor looks good compared
to this TT......So sad.


This thread makes me want to go out and tear apart the 110-volt system and inspect EVERYTHING, then replace it all with "the good ones".
And the 12V wiring?????

As I know you will do with this one.....
Yeah. Six/seven months pounding on this ---- trailer & I
thought that I was about done.
Silly me.


Happy "bullet" dodgin'!
Thank you for your kind wishes!
The same to you.
And all who visit here...........


Pop
cheers,
johnd
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Old 07-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringerPop View Post
Good call on not using the push-in termination. It's fast, but just WRONG! "Professionals" use them all the time!

I see another wire on the other terminal, which indicates that this receptacle was in the middle of a "pigtailed" wiring arrangement, and it was possible to draw current somewhere beyond these connections as well.

It also looks to be on the neutral (white) wires, as well.

Ever notice the little "bridge" between these two terminals? They're pretty small if you're drawing a lot of current (like a microwave oven) somewhere downstream, and they will generate some heat if this is the case.

What else was running in the rig at the time that is also 110-volt powered? Is that receptacle "downstream" of this?

Who is the manufacturer of this one?

Pop
Previously I answered your post as below:
================================
Ever notice the little "bridge" between these two terminals? They're pretty small if you're drawing a lot of current (like a microwave oven) somewhere downstream, and they will generate some heat if this is the case.
Yeah. One would hope that it was designed to handle the
current that the outlet was rated for.
But.............One would also hope to win the lottery.


What else was running in the rig at the time that is also 110-volt powered? Is that receptacle "downstream" of this?
This one "seems" to be mid-stream - that's just a resonable
guess. Nothing else was on the string. A small fan was on the
GFI string, but that don't count.....

================================

But now..........
I am beginning more and more to think that I may have
been wrong about "nothing else" on the stream. I have
believed that the fridge was on a different string.
But as I pull the outlets for inspection and try to discover
where the wires go, I am beginning to think that the fridge
was, in fact, on this string. Gonna test that theory tomorrow
because it would be a good explaination for why the outlet
remained burning hot when I thought everything was unplugged.
I don't see anything else that could have caused current flow
with the charger unplugged. Tested the damaged outlet for
resistance from Hot to Neutral and found an "open" circuit
on all ohmmeter ranges - up to 200 Megohms. Gotta be
caused by something downstream.........As you suggested.

And the heating effects of the "jumper tab" could
surely explain how all this problem got started in the
1st place........

And, oh yes, the fridge was running on AC.
D'oh!!!

Thanks for kicking my brain into gear (sorta, kinda).

johnd
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:08 AM   #20
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John,

I believe ALL of us who are following your investigation of this "tragedy, avoided" will benefit from this when you are through.

What we learn may just save us not only similar grief, but maybe MUCH more!

Thanks for being so thorough with your follow-up. Some may have just replaced the duplex, and simply pressed on.

Pop
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