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Old 02-25-2019, 07:55 PM   #1
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Electrical Help

Hello Everyone, I'm new to the forum and RV's. I bought a 2006 Forest River Work and Play Toyhauler model WPT24SK. The manuals and documentation that came with it are a bit sketchy.

I need to buy a generator as we will be boondocking quite a bit. My wattage calcs come out to about 4500 watts running on average. I'd like to get a dual fuel propane and gasoline. I see some pretty good looking generators online. I sort of have my eye on either the Duromax XP13000EH (propane = 9975 running / 12,350 surge), for which I'd build a baffle box to keep it quiet and protected from the elements + use it for home for the occasional power outage, or I really like the Honda EU7000is modified to accept propane because its quiet plus I'd get a GenTent cover for it to protect it. I estimate the Honda on propane would deliver about 5,000 running watts and maybe 6000 surge.

However, I'm scratching my head because the power plug into the trailer is 50amp meaning it could potentially handle 240v x 50 amps = 12,000 watts? I looked around the trailer and nothing seems that watt-worthy; it's just a fridge, water pump, microwave, 15K BTU A/C, etc.

Does anyone know off-hand why this little toyhauler could be wired for up to 12,000 watts? Is there something unique about toy haulers? Do I need to be able to supply it with 12,000 watts? Most everyone else I know has 30amp.

Thank you for your advice and counsel.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:02 PM   #2
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It's not 240v. It's 120v x 2.
You have two 120v circuits.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:17 PM   #3
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Please don't buy anything until you do some more research. The Duromax is an open frame job site generator which unless you are very far from other campers will be too loud. It is also not designed for electronics. You should look at an inverter generator with a noise level in the low to mid 50's. Also your 50A service is not 240V but rather two separate 120VAC legs. The generators that many members use are Honda, Yamaha, Champion.
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Old 02-25-2019, 08:51 PM   #4
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It's not 240v. It's 120v x 2.
You have two 120v circuits.
50 amp service IS is 240 volts! 240=2 120 LEGS. 240 IS DELIVERED TO THE RIG. you just can't access 240.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:05 PM   #5
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50 amp service IS is 240 volts! 240=2 120 LEGS. 240 IS DELIVERED TO THE RIG. you just can't access 240.
Finally someone who understands electricity
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:11 PM   #6
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Please don't buy anything until you do some more research. The Duromax is an open frame job site generator which unless you are very far from other campers will be too loud. It is also not designed for electronics. You should look at an inverter generator with a noise level in the low to mid 50's. Also your 50A service is not 240V but rather two separate 120VAC legs. The generators that many members use are Honda, Yamaha, Champion.
I'm gonna say it again for the 100th time. RV 50 amp service is in fact 240 volts!

Put a volt meter in the two hot legs at the pedestal. L1 and L2 =240 volts. Measure the voltage at the two 50 amp main breakers in your A/C panel. It's 240 volts just like your house service!!!! You just can't access 240 volts unless you have a late model MAGA MH.

Plus 2 on the gen.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:30 PM   #7
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If you want to be technical yes, 240VAC is delivered to the RV but it is not usable in 90% of the RVs as 240VAC unless the panel is modified. I made the distinction because I have seen too may new members come here after plugging their 50A RV into a 240VAC outlet that was not wired as it should be and frying their AC equipment. Several of these were even installed by an electrician.
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:50 PM   #8
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If you want to be technical yes, 240VAC is delivered to the RV but it is not usable in 90% of the RVs as 240VAC unless the panel is modified. I made the distinction because I have seen too may new members come here after plugging their 50A RV into a 240VAC outlet that was not wired as it should be and frying their AC equipment. Several of these were even installed by an electrician.
The problem is not with the 50 amp plugs. They are the same plug used at home for a 50 amp 240 volt 4 wire range. There is only one way to wire it. It can't heart a thing. What you are describing is someone wiring a 30 amp 120 volt 3 wire plug to a 240 volt system thinking it's like a 30 amp 3 wire 240 volt dryer.

50 amp RV = 240 volts L1 to L2
30 amp RV = 120 volt L1 to N
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Old 02-25-2019, 09:59 PM   #9
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To the OP:

50 amp is usually supplied to rigs with 2 A/C units, or at least wired for a second one if only one is supplied.

The EU7000 should be perfect, but plan on gasoline as fuel. The wattage output would decrease if propane were used, but you have fuel injection so it's gasoline only. Having the 240 volt switchable option makes it very easy to attach to a 50 amp RV service with a single converter "Dog Bone".

FYI, a full 20 pound propane tank holds 4.7 gallons, so you would be swapping them quite fast on a larger genny.
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Old 02-25-2019, 10:23 PM   #10
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The OP's calculations are correct. I have only read that 30 amp service units sometimes connect their units cable to 240 volt home (clothes dryers, etc.) outlets. I believe our ONAN generators for RV's are single phase and there are 12000 watt generators that produce 100 amps (2 120 volt single phase feeder legs) to equal 50 amp rigs shore power connection (2 50 amp distribution busses) but haven't read on this forum of anyone having that size on their rig. My unit has a 5500 watt single phase (2 120 volt feeder legs) generator with 20 amp and 30 amp feeder CB's. Oh well.
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Old 02-25-2019, 10:59 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Flybob View Post
If you want to be technical yes, 240VAC is delivered to the RV but it is not usable in 90% of the RVs as 240VAC unless the panel is modified. I made the distinction because I have seen too may new members come here after plugging their 50A RV into a 240VAC outlet that was not wired as it should be and frying their AC equipment. Several of these were even installed by an electrician.
240 volt electric used newer High End MH's come from the factory with unmodified panels. They are design at the factory to be 240 volt accessible just like your house.

The RV world is just gonna have to accept the fact that Electricity needs to be left to the professionals. It's not cut and dried anymore.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:58 PM   #12
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Wow...thanks, everyone. What a great board!
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Old 02-26-2019, 07:09 AM   #13
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as for the original questions. if you are wired for 50 amp service it is probably because you either have 2 a/c's installed or you are wired to support 2 a/c's. you may have a 120 vac residential refrigerator as well. plus the normal ac loads such as converter, microwave, and water heater. some really upscale 50 amp rv's also have the potential for dishwashers, washers, dryers, induction cook tops, and a 3rd a/c. all of this is designed to run on the 12,000 watts that 50 amp service provides. obviously you will not need the full 12,000 watts if you not have all this equipment.

as for sizing the generator all i can offer is our experiences. we have 2 a/c's and a residential refrigerator, plus microwave, converter, and water heater. we have been able to run everything using a 5500 watt generator. my point is that you most likely do not need a large 12,000 watt generator just because the trailer came with a power cord capable of plugging into a 12,000 supply.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:20 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by ditchdigger62 View Post
However, I'm scratching my head because the power plug into the trailer is 50amp meaning it could potentially handle 240v x 50 amps = 12,000 watts? I looked around the trailer and nothing seems that watt-worthy; it's just a fridge, water pump, microwave, 15K BTU A/C, etc.

Does anyone know off-hand why this little toyhauler could be wired for up to 12,000 watts? Is there something unique about toy haulers? Do I need to be able to supply it with 12,000 watts?
While it's technically wired for 12,000 watts, it won't use nearly that much power. The 50 amp service was decided on because in many cases the 120 volt 30 amp power wasn't sufficient if you had a second A/C unit. While you're not likely to use nearly 50 amps on either leg, at least they thought in advance and decided on power service that was big enough to accommodate future needs.

I think the EU7000 would work, but I would probably go with two 3500's paralleled from either Honda or one of the other mfg's..
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:04 PM   #15
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I am not sure what you plan on running or where and how often but the 4500 watts sounds like a lot and you may be able to get by with a much smaller generator.
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Old 03-01-2019, 12:55 AM   #16
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Thanks again and follow-up question, please. Me and the missus are going on a test run camping trip in the next week or so to a nearby campground that has power hookups. I’ve read that we should check the campground’s plug-in with a multimeter? What am I looking for when I do that? If they have 30amp only, I will use my new dog one adapter (my plug on my trailer is 50amp) but if they have 50 amp, I should use that instead? Without the dogbone, of course. Thanks.
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:31 PM   #17
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What you're looking for with the meter is that you have a good ground, zero volts between neutral and ground, ~120 volts between hot (L1) and neutral, ~120 volts between L2 and neutral, and ~240 volts between L1 & L2 if it's a 50 amp service.

The 240 volt measurement isn't critical because you won't have anything that uses both legs of the service, But it's good to check just for completeness.
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ditchdigger62 View Post
Thanks again and follow-up question, please. Me and the missus are going on a test run camping trip in the next week or so to a nearby campground that has power hookups. I’ve read that we should check the campground’s plug-in with a multimeter? What am I looking for when I do that? If they have 30amp only, I will use my new dog one adapter (my plug on my trailer is 50amp) but if they have 50 amp, I should use that instead? Without the dogbone, of course. Thanks.
You can purchase a plug-in tester/surge protector to check the campground pedestal power although I haven't seen one that displays voltage. Even though I installed an electrical management system (EMS) to protect the rig I still like to check the receptacle before plugging in.

I highly recommend an EMS to protect from over/under voltage, surges, reverse polarity, missing ground (very dangerous on 50 amp units) and some other things I don't recall at the moment.
You should be able to search EMS or Progressive Industries and read up. There a a few different brands... some are hardwired and some plug into the pedestal.

Our rig is 30 amp but if the receptacle looks bad I use the 50 amp with a dogbone to 30 amp. You have a 50 amp rig so use the 50 amp receptacle. The dogbone is good when 50 amp isn't available.
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:56 AM   #19
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I'm not going to even touch the electrical issue - I have no idea about the 240v vs 2x120v thing.
However, I will suggest this - if you find a suitable generator and it's only gas, take a look at the Motor Snorkel. It will convert a gas generator to propane and natural gas use. I converted my Black Maxx generator a couple years ago and haven't even touched gasoline since. The kit usually runs around $150 +/- and they can accommodate many different types of generators. If you get on their email list, they run discounts from time to time.
Let me also clarify this - the generator I converted is my generator for the house, not the MH. I haven't been that adventurous yet to see if the Onan can be converted.
Just my $0.02 worth.
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