Electrician Wired 50Amp RV Power Box 110/240

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by mguerrero

sigh - horrible! so sorry you're going thru this - I just finished dealing with all the damage caused when an electrician wired my 30 amp service as a 240 instead of 110 -- like your electrician he refused to accept responsibility luckily his company came to the rescue, fired him and covered all my damages - best of luck on your issue

I don't believe this OP said that. If he did, I missed it.

[mguerrero]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dan

I don't believe this OP said that. If he did, I missed it.

looks like you missed it --- here's the last sentence on his very first post "I'm pretty down about this and the electrician is saying he is not responsible."

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by mguerrero

looks like you missed it --- here's the last sentence on his very first post "I'm pretty down about this and the electrician is saying he is not responsible."

Indeed I missed it. Apologies.

[Bama Rambler]

Originally Posted by bhmm9999

"I'm pretty down about this and the electrician is saying he is not responsible."

After the diagnosis of the fault, the electrician is definitely responsible, and hopefully he'll own up to it and make it right.

If you hired him through a company (even if it's his own) their insurance should cover the damages.

[Scrapper]

I'm sorry OP has to deal with this. I have never heard of a certified/licensed electrician using white wires for all four conductors. It's always been my understanding that code states ground must be green (tagged green) or bare copper conductor, and neutral must always be white or tagged white. But I may be wrong, I am neither a certified or licensed electrician. In the job I retired from I had worked along side electricians laying new circuits and connecting them. The two I worked with most would always double check the work both they and I did.

IMO the so-called electrician should have his license pulled if he has one. I know many companies hire apprentices and let them have at it. Though I believe code says apprentices have to work under a master electrician which check their work every step of the way.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by WY Husker Fan

I apologize for the “nonsense” statement. It is 100 amps total at 120 volts but it is still a 50 amp Circuit. The statement causes confusion. If you have a 200 amp service on your house, you don’t go on to say it is really 400 amps at 120 volt even though I guess technically it is. I’ve seen it stated here in past threads that a 50 amp 2pole breaker is really 25 amps on each side. Again a misstatement that then gains traction and adds confusion. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen the statement that a 50 amp RV receptacle is wired differently from a range receptacle. I guess I’m just a little sensitive because the next statement is usually how “all electricians” are inept when it comes to RV power.

Old 3 wire dryer and range receptacles are indeed wired differently with no ground - they used to tie the frame of the appliance to the neutral - so I think that is where the idea of RV receptacles being wired differently originated. This has not been allowed for new installations for several code cycles but there are still a lot of them out there. I have been around long enough that I have wired mobile home parks with 50 amp receptacles for smaller semi-permanent mobile homes - again wired exactly the same as a 50 Amp RV receptacle. As stated earlier in this thread, the most common situation where RV’s end up being connected to 240 volts is when a 30 amp 120V RV receptacle is mistakenly wired as 240 volt. If the electrician is not an RV enthusiast, I can see where they might look at the receptacle and think “240 volts”. They can be led further down the path by the receptacle itself. I have installed several of them where the Hot and Neutral terminals were not marked in any way, either with molded in labels or brass and silver screws. At best this could result in reverse polarity and at worst leading someone to think “240 volts” because both screws are brass.

Your diagrams are actually very good as is your explanation. Again I apologize for my previous statement which upon re-reading came across as pretty snarky.

Well said.

This subject has been one of my pet peeves here.
People with 50 amp shore plugs seem to believe they have a 100 amp service when they don't.

They have 100 amps of combined power (@120v) but each leg is protected by a 50 amp breaker hence the 50 amp service moniker. Any load of more than 50 amps on either leg, will result in the the breaker tripping.

Combine that with the smoke & mirrors some try to use saying that a 50 amp R/V outlet is wired differently than any other 50 amp single phase outlet (dryer, range, etc.) and now you got a lot of folks believing something that just isn't true.

I applaud wmtire for his diligence in monitoring these threads and posting well thought out information. If some folks would just take the time to read the links, it would be icing on the cake.

[windsurfdog]

Knowing that a 30 amp RV receptacle is wired 30 amp/120 volts, quite unlike the vast majority of 30 amp residential circuits (i.e. electric water heater, electric dryer, many outside A/C heat pump units, etc.) which are 30 amps/240 volts, it is easy to see how the casual or neophyte electrician would wire the 30 amp RV receptacle incorrectly.

On the other hand, wiring a 50 amp RV receptacle incorrectly is just plain wrong considering the similarities with residential 50 amp/240 volt circuits.

And ANY electrician who uses white insulated wire WITHOUT phase tape markings at both ends for hots and ground should be hung by the short hairs.

[larrytbm]

Breakers trip based on amps, not volts, so they can't protect incorrect wiring. All 110 volt items that were operating are suspect including frig and water heater elements IF they were running. Wiring should not be damaged by excess voltage. The converter is damaged and should be replaced, even if it is ok now there is risk to all 12 volt items going forward.

[CedarCreekWoody]

WMTIRE, thanks for giving him a call. I'm sure it was helpful. The OP hasn't returned but hopefully he got the accurate info that he needed.

While not common it is acceptable to use wire that is not the proper color but it must be clearly marked on each end with colored tape or a colored marker.

[bgarbo]

Any electrician that doesnt check his work should do something else for a living! Lucky nobody got hurt or killed. Makes me pretty angry. Sorry for your loss, but it could have been a lot worse.

[tomrob1161]

You electric needs to read the directions that come with the 50 amp RV box. It is not wired the way a dryer or electric stove is. If all else fails, read the directions.

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by tomrob1161

You electric needs to read the directions that come with the 50 amp RV box. It is not wired the way a dryer or electric stove is. If all else fails, read the directions.

Any electrician that needs to read instructions to wire a 50 amp receptacle is not an electrician. The fact that he used all white wires tells me he is not an electrician. I hope he owns up to his mistake and covers your losses. Good luck.

[merlinhomeauto]

Originally Posted by tomrob1161

You electric needs to read the directions that come with the 50 amp RV box. It is not wired the way a dryer or electric stove is. If all else fails, read the directions.

A 50amp RV outlet is the same as a 50amp range outlet! I keep hearing they are different and others saying they are the same as a licensed electrical contractor that has 3 campgrounds as customers I can tell you they are the same for sure.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by merlinhomeauto

A 50amp RV outlet is the same as a 50amp range outlet! I keep hearing they are different and others saying they are the same as a licensed electrical contractor that has 3 campgrounds as customers I can tell you they are the same for sure.

Things getting a little clearer now. So, I assume (provided the outlet is wired correctly) that when one plugs into the outlet then the decision to use it as 110 or 220 is made by whatever appliance (or RV) is plugged in?

[david_reaves]

emm-dee, that EXACTLY the way I understand it. The RV is setup to isolate each leg of the 120 into separate circuits... the 240 appliance uses them both together.

[Bluepill]

Eliminate ALL CONFUSION: USE ONLY WATTS when speaking of RV services.

One 120 volt leg at 20 Amps = 2400 Watts

One 120 volt leg at 30 Amps = 3600 Watts

Two 120 volt legs at 50 Amps = 12000 Watts.



Problem solved!





(Also gives better bragging rights to us "50 Amp Guys")

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by david_reaves

emm-dee, that EXACTLY the way I understand it. The RV is setup to isolate each leg of the 120 into separate circuits... the 240 appliance uses them both together.

Correct. The power panel in MOST RV's separates the 50 amp 240 volt circuit into two 120 volt circuits because MOST RV's do not have any appliances that use 240 volts. However, there are some upper end RV's that are now using 240 volt appliances.

[merlinhomeauto]

Originally Posted by emm-dee

Things getting a little clearer now. So, I assume (provided the outlet is wired correctly) that when one plugs into the outlet then the decision to use it as 110 or 220 is made by whatever appliance (or RV) is plugged in?

Yes just like your brick and mortar.

[SpringerPop]

One difference that might be made is whether or not the wiring includes the neutral (white) wire.

Even though (for instance) a dedicated dryer plug might be wired with two hots and a ground (green), and "maybe" a neutral isn't necessary for the dryer to function, if it's a 4-hole receptacle, it needs a neutral. Any receptacle wired for an RV MUST have that neutral for things to work. If it doesn't, that's when bad things can (and will) happen. It MUST also have the ground (green), too.

Additionally, electrical codes generally specify that a wire cannot be color taped if the wire is smaller than a #4, although the practice is still seen, anyway.

In the interest of the public's safety, the electrician that did the OP's job might consider another field of endeavor.

Pop

[andymil]

Actually... if the two 120 volt loads are equal, the current in the neutral wire is zero.