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Old 10-17-2016, 03:12 PM   #21
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The Loose was completely not even tightened in had it been on the factory floor could have been taken out by hand on the factory floor. I do all my maintenance on my things unless they are under warranty then I let the dealer so they can't blame me. Have rebuilt cars and trucks from the ground up built my own trailers etc. But every single one the wire was stuck in the neutral block and then never touched after that.

Forest River is at the moment authorising at no cost to me to have the unit repaired by my home where it is or them to tow it to the dealer. I advised them till they prove to me every single electrical connection in that thing is safe I will not be accepting the unit back. My Family and their lives are more important to me. will keep everyone posted as it unfolds but so far still not satisfied with the response from Forest river.

Any advice on uploading a picture I will try it again.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:19 PM   #22
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Bluepill View Post
The concept of Quality Assurance is foreign to all RV manufacturers. They are still living in the 19th Century with an attitude that once it leaves the factory it is not their problem.

Here is a photo of an electrical connector that connects to the Electronic Throttle Body in my Honda.



Note the two splashes of paint on it? This means that two different inspectors checked and approved the connection as good. That means there is very little chance that the connection will fail and result in an out-of-control throttle situation.

Honda and Toyota kicked the Big Three in the teeth by giving attention to quality. Detroit is finally getting the message. I would love to see Japan target the RV market.
Those connectors cannot back out if they are installed until the locking mechanism engages. That's why cars and trucks do not have the same vibration issues as RV's. RV's use bricks and sticks type connections and, as we all know, Bricks and Sticks homes don't drive down the road. The RV industry would do well to build their own electrical components that are designed for the environment in which they will be used.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Tireman9 View Post
I hear the excuse of "lot of movement" but you can buy a car or truck that is going to go 100,000 miles and not have anything like the problems many RVs see after just 5,000.
If you remain stuck on that kind of comparison, you will never be happy owning an RV. The manufacturing, design, parts, customization, and use of a car is not comparable to an RV.
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Old 10-17-2016, 03:41 PM   #25
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Well, I have really enjoyed reading this. And guess what, an RV, as built within the current state of the industry, is just not for everyone.

Some alternatives, a) buy a new Mercedes-Maybach and travel with a couple of suitcases and stay in hotels, b) stay at home, c) fly and do the vacation routine, d) buy a vacation home.

But, I will offer lots of support and encouragement for those who want to fight to change the system while I'm enjoying my beer. I am on your side 24/7. For some reason, I have no complaints, zero issues.
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:02 PM   #26
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If you remain stuck on that kind of comparison, you will never be happy owning an RV. The manufacturing, design, parts, customization, and use of a car is not comparable to an RV.
Yep, attempting to compare the RV industry to the Auto industry is useless.

The only thing that they have in common, is that they both sell things on wheels at dealerships.
Other than that, they couldn't be more different.

Unlike the American auto industry, which only improved due to Japanese competition, the RV industry has had no such competition and probably never will.
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:09 PM   #27
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Understood and agreed. So, what can be learned?

The service technicians are trained to replace parts, not troubleshoot. The RVIA certified technicians can troubleshoot but few dealerships have one on the premises. Service wages are very low in this industry. That is why they replaced the speaker rather than troubleshoot for the cause of the problem.

Build quality is an issue for all RV mfgs - no longer buying a particular mfgs product will not necessarily solve your problems. Most mfgs rely on dealer PDI's and owner usage to uncover build quality issues. Newmar offers a $3,500 factory PDI. Many dealers claim they do a PDI, but don't.

The most effective solution is learning how to do RV preventative maintenance - one of the things you would learn is to check your wiring regularly to include tightening your ground wires.

Here are some thoughts next time a salesman ask what it will take to close the deal today. Don't expect them to want to deal with you thereafter and yes you would want this put in writing.

Dream: Can you assure me that my dream wonít turn into a nightmare?

PDI: Can you promise me that your PDI will catch all the things that should have be caught at the factory, so I donít have to come back to you within the next 30 days to have them fixed?

Slides: Can you promise me the slides will work properly, they won't squeak, creak or leak?

Roof: Can you guarantee there will not be any leaks for one year from the date of purchase?

Owner training program: Will you teach me and my wife how to operate this RV safely? DMV licensing requirements?

Certified technicians: how many of your technicians are RVIA Certified Technicians? Can you assure me that a certified technician will do or oversee all the work you have done on my coach?

RV Service: Can you assure me you or someone else will get my RV serviced in days, not weeks, when Iím on the road?

Lemon laws: Are you willing to insert a provision in my contract that won't take away my right of return regarding the residential portion of the unit and if you canít get something fixed within 30 days, I will therefore have the right to return the unit?
RVIA is a joke and a half .
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:11 PM   #28
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I think a properly tightened electrical connection would take quite a long time to loosen. When I checked mine after a year they were still so tight they couldn't be tightened. What it boils down to is management in every way. Hire and train people then check their work occasionally plus have a checklist they complete and these problems wouldn't exist. It does not take a lot longer to do a task the right way. What I mean is if you are tightening screws on breakers or a bus bar does it take that much longer to make sure everything is tight? What we have in this industry is management pushing units out the door as fast as possible while they are monitoring how long it takes to put a screw in. I would rather pay a 5% increase in labor cost and be guaranteed everything is done to "spec".
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Old 10-17-2016, 04:37 PM   #29
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:28 PM   #30
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Smile

Very interesting comments on First Puma's situation. He has a good point about the neutral being loose. Unless you have been to one of the RV manufacturers plant and seen first hand how these thing are built you are missing one important thing, they are ALL built by hand much like autos were 100+ years ago. The folks that build them are all paid by "piece work" they are assigned to build X number of pieces and then they can leave to go to their farms and/or other activities. They arrive at the plants some where between 4:30 and 5:00 am and most are gone shortly after lunch, they for the most part don't have an automobile or electricity at their home, they drive horse drawn buggies, and they DON'T use what they are building. Some of them are craftsmen, but a lot of the guys I saw were in their 20s and 30s.
To me the biggest problem I saw at the plants it the "piece work" atmosphere that encourages fast (and sometimes not accurate) work. Like one guy posted above a little more time to do it right might make the units cost a little more, but as customers we would have fewer headaches over problems with our rigs.
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