Forest River Electrical Issues

[FirstPuma]

The Loose was completely not even tightened in had it been on the factory floor could have been taken out by hand on the factory floor. I do all my maintenance on my things unless they are under warranty then I let the dealer so they can't blame me. Have rebuilt cars and trucks from the ground up built my own trailers etc. But every single one the wire was stuck in the neutral block and then never touched after that.

Forest River is at the moment authorising at no cost to me to have the unit repaired by my home where it is or them to tow it to the dealer. I advised them till they prove to me every single electrical connection in that thing is safe I will not be accepting the unit back. My Family and their lives are more important to me. will keep everyone posted as it unfolds but so far still not satisfied with the response from Forest river.

Any advice on uploading a picture I will try it again.

[bob caldwell]

Only way I can load a pic is by using the Tapatalk app on my phone

[Joe_GA]

Originally Posted by Bluepill

The concept of Quality Assurance is foreign to all RV manufacturers. They are still living in the 19th Century with an attitude that once it leaves the factory it is not their problem.

Here is a photo of an electrical connector that connects to the Electronic Throttle Body in my Honda.



Note the two splashes of paint on it? This means that two different inspectors checked and approved the connection as good. That means there is very little chance that the connection will fail and result in an out-of-control throttle situation.

Honda and Toyota kicked the Big Three in the teeth by giving attention to quality. Detroit is finally getting the message. I would love to see Japan target the RV market.

Those connectors cannot back out if they are installed until the locking mechanism engages. That's why cars and trucks do not have the same vibration issues as RV's. RV's use bricks and sticks type connections and, as we all know, Bricks and Sticks homes don't drive down the road. The RV industry would do well to build their own electrical components that are designed for the environment in which they will be used.

[Philos3]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I hear the excuse of "lot of movement" but you can buy a car or truck that is going to go 100,000 miles and not have anything like the problems many RVs see after just 5,000.

If you remain stuck on that kind of comparison, you will never be happy owning an RV. The manufacturing, design, parts, customization, and use of a car is not comparable to an RV.

[Philos3]

Well, I have really enjoyed reading this. And guess what, an RV, as built within the current state of the industry, is just not for everyone.

Some alternatives, a) buy a new Mercedes-Maybach and travel with a couple of suitcases and stay in hotels, b) stay at home, c) fly and do the vacation routine, d) buy a vacation home.

But, I will offer lots of support and encouragement for those who want to fight to change the system while I'm enjoying my beer. I am on your side 24/7. For some reason, I have no complaints, zero issues.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Philos3

If you remain stuck on that kind of comparison, you will never be happy owning an RV. The manufacturing, design, parts, customization, and use of a car is not comparable to an RV.

Yep, attempting to compare the RV industry to the Auto industry is useless.

The only thing that they have in common, is that they both sell things on wheels at dealerships.
Other than that, they couldn't be more different.

Unlike the American auto industry, which only improved due to Japanese competition, the RV industry has had no such competition and probably never will.

[northstar1960]

Originally Posted by Philos3

Understood and agreed. So, what can be learned?

The service technicians are trained to replace parts, not troubleshoot. The RVIA certified technicians can troubleshoot but few dealerships have one on the premises. Service wages are very low in this industry. That is why they replaced the speaker rather than troubleshoot for the cause of the problem.

Build quality is an issue for all RV mfgs - no longer buying a particular mfgs product will not necessarily solve your problems. Most mfgs rely on dealer PDI's and owner usage to uncover build quality issues. Newmar offers a $3,500 factory PDI. Many dealers claim they do a PDI, but don't.

The most effective solution is learning how to do RV preventative maintenance - one of the things you would learn is to check your wiring regularly to include tightening your ground wires.

Here are some thoughts next time a salesman ask what it will take to close the deal today. Don't expect them to want to deal with you thereafter and yes you would want this put in writing.

Dream: Can you assure me that my dream won’t turn into a nightmare?

PDI: Can you promise me that your PDI will catch all the things that should have be caught at the factory, so I don’t have to come back to you within the next 30 days to have them fixed?

Slides: Can you promise me the slides will work properly, they won't squeak, creak or leak?

Roof: Can you guarantee there will not be any leaks for one year from the date of purchase?

Owner training program: Will you teach me and my wife how to operate this RV safely? DMV licensing requirements?

Certified technicians: how many of your technicians are RVIA Certified Technicians? Can you assure me that a certified technician will do or oversee all the work you have done on my coach?

RV Service: Can you assure me you or someone else will get my RV serviced in days, not weeks, when I’m on the road?

Lemon laws: Are you willing to insert a provision in my contract that won't take away my right of return regarding the residential portion of the unit and if you can’t get something fixed within 30 days, I will therefore have the right to return the unit?

RVIA is a joke and a half .

[Brewhedd]

I think a properly tightened electrical connection would take quite a long time to loosen. When I checked mine after a year they were still so tight they couldn't be tightened. What it boils down to is management in every way. Hire and train people then check their work occasionally plus have a checklist they complete and these problems wouldn't exist. It does not take a lot longer to do a task the right way. What I mean is if you are tightening screws on breakers or a bus bar does it take that much longer to make sure everything is tight? What we have in this industry is management pushing units out the door as fast as possible while they are monitoring how long it takes to put a screw in. I would rather pay a 5% increase in labor cost and be guaranteed everything is done to "spec".

[bob caldwell]

Hire men, not kids....

[BMullins46]

Very interesting comments on First Puma's situation. He has a good point about the neutral being loose. Unless you have been to one of the RV manufacturers plant and seen first hand how these thing are built you are missing one important thing, they are ALL built by hand much like autos were 100+ years ago. The folks that build them are all paid by "piece work" they are assigned to build X number of pieces and then they can leave to go to their farms and/or other activities. They arrive at the plants some where between 4:30 and 5:00 am and most are gone shortly after lunch, they for the most part don't have an automobile or electricity at their home, they drive horse drawn buggies, and they DON'T use what they are building. Some of them are craftsmen, but a lot of the guys I saw were in their 20s and 30s.
To me the biggest problem I saw at the plants it the "piece work" atmosphere that encourages fast (and sometimes not accurate) work. Like one guy posted above a little more time to do it right might make the units cost a little more, but as customers we would have fewer headaches over problems with our rigs.

[FirstPuma]

If this happened after a couple years I would say maybe it vibrates loose. But this was blatant negligence. We put the same connectors in our truck because they have generators on the shore lines etc. And we have NEVER had an issue like this. I'm sorry but no defending Forest Rivers lack of quality here it is like I said full on negligence.

Tried the App should have pics now.

[bob caldwell]

Pics showed up! Good dea

[FirstPuma]

Lovely new camper isn't it.

[bob caldwell]

Yeah, that does suck.....mine only had 2 furnace ducts almost torn in half, and as I won't use a dealer, I fixed. They had their chance when it was built

[Philos3]

"I fixed."

[SeaDog]

Good pics. OK send the pics to Forest River tell them you want a new panel wired correctly and the rest of the electrical checked by a factory tech. The piece of mind would be worth the trip to the factory.

[FirstPuma]

Forest River has the Pics, they have no care in the world it seems to give me the piece of mind it is going to be 100% safe when they are done. Have to say considering the same guy when I asked when I first got the camper for the dimensions and location of the TV backer told me to bring it to the dealer to have the TV mounted (Really!!) I have no faith in them with the latest issue, and will be quite some time before I would again. Heck the table after the second time turning it into a bed the posts pulled from the floor and I had to fix that on my own, ended up needing to turn the base a little and silicone and screw it to the floor so it would hold up and not have all the stress go through the screws also did not use the drill to run them in all the way only to get them started so the threads would actually hold something as well. The existing screw holes had, had the screws spun in the holes and holding nothing, of all the screws two on one base and three on the other were still holding something the rest I was able to pull out with my bare fingers. but my fix sure has held up very well, but guess thats why I am an engineer and not a monkey running in screws as fast as I can. just a simple thought and addition made it ten times as strong.

[bob caldwell]

For the screws that fall out, I use sheet metal screws....deeper threads

[SeaDog]

Originally Posted by FirstPuma

Forest River has the Pics, they have no care in the world it seems to give me the piece of mind it is going to be 100% safe when they are done. Have to say considering the same guy when I asked when I first got the camper for the dimensions and location of the TV backer told me to bring it to the dealer to have the TV mounted (Really!!) I have no faith in them with the latest issue, and will be quite some time before I would again. Heck the table after the second time turning it into a bed the posts pulled from the floor and I had to fix that on my own, ended up needing to turn the base a little and silicone and screw it to the floor so it would hold up and not have all the stress go through the screws also did not use the drill to run them in all the way only to get them started so the threads would actually hold something as well. The existing screw holes had, had the screws spun in the holes and holding nothing, of all the screws two on one base and three on the other were still holding something the rest I was able to pull out with my bare fingers. but my fix sure has held up very well, but guess thats why I am an engineer and not a monkey running in screws as fast as I can. just a simple thought and addition made it ten times as strong.

OK thats the solution, fix the problems yourself you will know they are done correctly let this stress inducer go and kick back have a gin and tonic and enjoy camping. To early for Gin and Tonic so I'll have a coffee with you.

[Jeff_and_Abby]

FirstPuma ... pictures, Amazing in a not-good way. Ouch !! There is no excuse for that, period.

For all ... the 120 Volt AC power connections are not intended for the wide temperature changes that an RV will experience. We are connecting dissimilar metals and they will expand and contract differently with temperature. The only "fix" is to tighten them "darn" good and check them, probably once or twice a year (i.e. end of winter, start of fall.) Of course, with the POWER TURNED OFF / UNPLUGGED FROM SHORE POWER. SAFETY FIRST. Or have a proper electrician if you are not very comfortable with the process. This tightening would hold for pretty much all screw-type 120 Volt connections.

Some of the outlets might have "push in" type connections, those are likely best left alone, the sharp points that press into the conductor make a "gas tight" connection and the tension of the spring metal holds it together. Opinions vary as to whether those are "better" than a good tight screw terminal.