Front outlets dead, help.

Zvacman · 04-27-2012, 10:52 AM

Hi, new to the forum and already have to ask for help. I have have a 1999 Cherokee 29F trailer (I think the F means front kitchen). I have power to all of the back half outlets, 3 in the bedroom, GFI in the bathroom, 2 in the living room, 1 outside, and the microwave. The fusebox only has one breaker marked receps. The outlets in the kitchen, 2 on the counter, the water heater, and refrigerator are all dead (my METER says so). I have been checking the outlets one by one and replacing them with standard household ones and junction boxes as I go. Does anyone know why there would be a wire that does nothing capped in the refrigerator service area (it's dead as well). Does the wiring run underneath the unit where it could have gotten damaged or chewed by a critter? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks, Mike

LadyWindrider · 04-27-2012, 12:05 PM

First of all, I would reset all the breakers, regardless of how they are marked. Second, I would for another GFI outlet. Almost all the outlets in in camper are GFI protected, so maybe there is another GFI outlet that has popped.

Third, as for the outlet in the fridge compartment, most campers have a wire there, with a single outlet, to plug the refer in for electric power.

Since you have a meter, and can use it, take the breaker cover off, and check for power out of every breaker. Then it is a matter of pulling outlets.

If this started when you converted your last outlet to house type, I would start there. Especially if you are wiring by just pushing the wires in the back of the outlet, and not wiring around the screws. Too easy for a small piece of insulation to keep that "knife" contact from working.

Good Luck, and lets us know, just a process of elimination.

And by the way, WELCOME to the forums.

myredracer · 04-27-2012, 12:35 PM

Not sure why you would want to replace the RV type of receptacle with residential ones? Household ones are designed to be mounted inside an outlet box and there is no provision of a mounting tab like the RV ones. I don't think the RV ones are all that bad if they are installed properly. In your case, I would do what windrider says and if that doesn't help, more info:

The RV receptacles have push-on tabs for the #14 gauge wires - one for in and one for out. While doing some mods to our trailer this winter, I had one receptacle and discovered that one hot wire was not stabbed onto the connector properly. In fact, it was barely hanging on. Not only bad for downstream receptacles, it could easily be a fire hazard. I also found a bunch of long screws for the shower curtain track penetrating way into the "attic" space. Problem was, that there was a pile of 120V & low voltage wires laying on top of the screws (with sharp points). I had to fix that.

I would get yourself one of those testers that you just have to hold the tip against a wire and it beeps if live. They don't cost much and are kinda cool. That way you can more easily discover if you have a live wire but bad connection. Watch how you push the test meter leads into a socket. Sometimes they don't make contact well or at all. As a 100% check, find a radio or something to plug in or get a tester that plugs into the recept. The advantage of those is that they can show an open ground or reversed polarity.

I would sketch out a quick plan of your unit where each recept. and load is and figure out what breaker controls each circuit and where the last live recept. is. I would be surprised to find that you have all 120V loads & recepts. on one breaker.

Would be interested to learn what you figure out in the end.

Zvacman · 04-27-2012, 02:25 PM

Thank You so far for the responses. In an effort to keep my question short I left out some of the steps that I have taken already. I have already done the following:
1. Reset all of the breakers and checked them for proper voltage.
2. Replaced the GFI with the best one the electric supply had.
3. When replacing the stock outlets I installed shallow gang boxes, put the wires around the screws on the outlets, and used Bucannans on the grounds.

The water heater outlet is the last one left that I haven't changed, and I plan to do that one tonight. The only GFI I have is in the bathroom and will kill all of the outlets that are currently working when tripped. Here is one thing that is odd, the refrigerator is hard wired in, no outlet and as I already mentioned there is a wire in the service area that is capped and dead. I keep a spare GFI in the camper I may put that in tonight for grins but I am doubtful it will have any effect. After checking the writing on the panel I found that there is one breaker marked GFI and one marked receps. When I turn off the receps breaker they all go cold including the GFI. This is also the case when I turn off the GFI breaker it's as if the are one in the same.
Thank You, Mike

**Herk7769** · 04-27-2012, 02:35 PM

I have to jump in. I have to assume with all the wiring you did, that you checked the connection at the breaker inside the power center.
It could have come loose or burned off.

Zvacman · 04-27-2012, 02:59 PM

Herk7769, I will add your comment to my growing list of things to check.

Thanks.

TURBS · 04-27-2012, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvacman

Herk7769, I will add your comment to my growing list of things to check.

Thanks.

We've seen that happen on a post just a week ago.

Zvacman · 04-28-2012, 09:56 AM

Okay, here's the update. I replaced the new GFI with another new GFI, the refrigerator started working. Everything in the panel is secure and some outlets on each of the circuits for plugs work. I still have the two outlets in the kitchen that are dead and the water heater outlet is also still dead. The outlets in the kitchen are countertop height which would lead me to beleive they should be on a GFI circuit and as near as I can figure they aren't.
I have been chasing electrical gremlins in this unt for about 7 years now and it's getting really old, a wiring diagram from the factory sure would be helpful. If anyone has any more suggestions I would appreciate it, camping season here in Michigan is right around the corner.

Thanks, Mike

LadyWindrider · 04-28-2012, 10:24 AM

Not sure how you are checking outlets, probes stuck inside, or how? I would be checking the wires themselves. You can also get a small yellow tester that plugs in the outlet at Lowe's or Home depot, for less then $5.00, and has light. Shows reverse polarity, open ground, etc. Anyway, normally, at best, maybe 2 circuits or all the outlets in a camper. Remove all AC power. Remove the two that don't work. Remove the wires, and leave them exposed, but make sure that are not touching. Apply AC power, and go check for voltage at the wires. If none, you will have to find from which other outlet at least one of them is being fed. Hint, it will be the one with 4 wires. If one of them has only 2 wires, that will be the end of the line.

**Herk7769** · 04-28-2012, 10:43 AM

The closest thing to a generic wiring diargam is this one.

Zvacman · 04-28-2012, 10:48 AM

Windrider:
Thanks for the comment. All of the receps in the camper have 4 wires except the microwave which is on it's own breaker. Two things really have me puzzled though. 1) Why would the refrigerator start working after I replaced the GFI? 2) What is the abandoned wire in the fridge service area for? I didn't get a chance to see if it is live now that the fridge started working. Does anyone know if there is a tester that sends a signal through a wire for tracing where it goes or came from? The only tester I have been able to find is for identifying wires back at the panel.

Zvacman · 04-28-2012, 11:35 AM

I forgot to mention, the GFI is located in the bathroom. As I've said previously the fridge is hard wired, NO OUTLET.

LadyWindrider · 04-28-2012, 11:48 AM

From the OP in post #11 "All of the receps in the camper have 4 wires except the microwave which is on it's own breaker." I believe the microwave will be on it's own circuit. As for the other plugs, one of them has to only have two wires, to be the end of the line. Just had a thought, do you have an outside plug somewhere? Have you pulled it out and checked the wiring on it? May have been leaking and connections gotten corroded. Just a thought.

As for the two that are dead, how can one of them not be the end of the line? Again, check the wires feeding them, Almost impossible for voltage to go though them and continue down the line, and the plugs not work, unless they are internally bad somehow.

By now, I would try to figure, from the bathroom plug, next closest plug, then the next closest, etc., and try to figure the chain. It will be the shortest way around the trailer, with the least amount of wire, plug to plug. When you find the first dead one, go back one plug and make sure it is feeding the circuit. Keep digging.
__________________
Windrider,

Dave_Monica · 04-28-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zvacman

I still have the two outlets in the kitchen that are dead and the water heater outlet is also still dead.

The 120V supply to the water heater is usually on it's own circuit. There should be a breaker in the panel for it.

Dave

LadyWindrider · 04-28-2012, 12:16 PM

Missed that one Dave. And yes, it should have it's own circuit, and be labeled in the panel, (WH) and not be part of the GFI circuit that starts in the bathroom.

Zvacman · 04-28-2012, 12:48 PM

The breakers are labeled as follows: Main, A/C, Microwave, GFI, Receps, and Converter. The only lone wire I have located is the one in the service area of the fridge. This wire was capped with wire nuts right from the factory. I haven't taken the water heater plug apart yet purely due to its location (my 6'-1" 220lb body doesn't fit through cupboard doors very well). The quest for the culprit continues, what is odd is that some outlets on both power breakers work.

**Herk7769** · 04-28-2012, 03:59 PM

Most likely we will go round and round until we get some photos of the panel and a diagram of (hand drawn and scanned or photographed is OK) where the outlets are located and numbered.

Photos of the inside of any outlets would also help (numbered to the drawing).

Trying to get a feel for what we are dealing with here.
So far I am just confused.

LadyWindrider · 04-28-2012, 07:35 PM

There is a tester, that will send a tone down a wire, and then you can trace it with a non contact receiver. I bought one at Home Depot for about $100 a few years ago. You need to have the power off to use it. Might be able to trace wiring through walls, just have to get used to it. Same style of tester is used to trace telephone equipment. Can'y find it on website, will post more info later if needed

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