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03-19-2017, 11:52 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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General electric question on A buddies SOB 5er
One of my best friends just bought a Excel 5er. Trying to figure out all the switches an different electrical problem has been a job.Finally had a mobile tech come out.Camper had been setting ib storage for a year.Thieves broke door window and stole some things inside and battery and 50 amp cord.(grrrrrr).
Any way on to the problems.Tech came out and said we had reverse polarity on the camper 110 side.It didn't show on the tester we used,one of the plug in style. We switched the wire on the 30 amp receptical and he said things were good.Now the plug ins all show reverse polarity,but my progressive EMS shows good power to the cord through the adapter.How do we fix this? His old camper now shows reverse polarity at the plugins using the 30 amp cord on it. A stumper for me as I'm not a great electrician.
All things are working as the should except for the RP on the plugins.Thanks for the help.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-19-2017, 12:29 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: x
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Not sure what you mean by plugins? What I would do is first start at the power supply (not the camper) and make sure it is wired correctly. Next I would pull shore power receptacle (on the camper) and verify it is wired correctly lastly I would to the disruption panel in the camper and verify correct wiring. Just for grins I would pull one of the 110 receptacles (inside the camper) and make sure power (black) is to the small slot and neutral (white) is to the large slot with green to ground. let the forum know what you find.
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03-19-2017, 02:08 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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Thanks,I've already checked out the power to the camper and it's fine.I'll be down helping him in the next few days and pull some of the recepticales and check the wires.Old owners have been no help,as he had a stroke and can't remember anything that is in the camper.It seems he did take good care of it when they were able to.I'll report back when I have some more info.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-19-2017, 02:15 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 2,139
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I am not an expert or electrician but have always been told reverse polarity doesn't hurt anything. Just something for inspectors to nit pick so they can get their $$$$
Most devices arnt going to know the difference between the polarity.
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03-19-2017, 02:44 PM
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#5
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Just as confused as you
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaDog
Not sure what you mean by plugins? What I would do is first start at the power supply (not the camper) and make sure it is wired correctly. Next I would pull shore power receptacle (on the camper) and verify it is wired correctly lastly I would to the disruption panel in the camper and verify correct wiring. Just for grins I would pull one of the 110 receptacles (inside the camper) and make sure power (black) is to the small slot and neutral (white) is to the large slot with green to ground. let the forum know what you find.
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And most 110 receptacles have a brass (gold) colored for hot and silver colored for neutral. If you notice I said most, I've seen some where both sides are silver.
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Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
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03-20-2017, 04:06 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimber45
I am not an expert or electrician but have always been told reverse polarity doesn't hurt anything. Just something for inspectors to nit pick so they can get their $$$$
Most devices arnt going to know the difference between the polarity.
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Reverse polarity USUALLY isn't an issue, but it CAN be the difference between life and death in certain situations. It is NOT just so inspectors have something to make money from. Those who have "told you" are ignorant and should not be giving electrical advice.
Your last sentence is true, but the key word is "most", which by definition means not all.
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03-20-2017, 07:48 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
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It sounds like the power coming into the EMS is connected properly but the jumper from the EMS over to the converter is wired backwards, hence the reason the EMS shows it is correct. Check the voltage from the breaker buss bar to the ground buss bar. It should read 120 volts or so. Then check the voltage from neutral buss to the ground buss. It should be zero voltage. If your readings are reversed then you have reverse polarity. SHUT OFF THE POWER and swap the leads from the EMS to the proper busses in the converter.
Incidently the ground and neutral should never be bonded together in an RV (this is only done in the main service entrance, never a subpanel).
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03-21-2017, 01:59 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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Quote:
SHUT OFF THE POWER and swap the leads from the EMS to the proper busses in the converter.
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Using the portable 50 amp progressive EMS.RV cord goes from ems to camper plug.Can't switch anything there.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-21-2017, 04:06 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveandSue
Using the portable 50 amp progressive EMS.RV cord goes from ems to camper plug.Can't switch anything there.
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No, no leads to swap on EMS if portable. But still check the power cord connections to the converter as described above. The L1 or L2 lead may be reversed with the common lead. This would not show as reversed polarity as it is downstream from the portable EMS. This would be very dangerous if any appliance connected L1 to L2 as this is 240 volts. If your friend has doubts he should get an electrican to check every thing out.
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03-21-2017, 04:11 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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Quote:
he should get an electrican to check every thing out.
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That's what I've been trying to tell him. I'm going to check out the readings in the camper breaker box again to see if the readings there are right.Thanks for the help.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-21-2017, 04:36 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
Posts: 3,477
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Tell him that if one of those leads is actually wrong the damage could cost a lot more than an electrican!
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Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
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03-23-2017, 09:59 AM
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#12
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Popup graduate
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 36
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Reverse polarity is always an issue. I can point you to many forensic articles investigating the death of a young mother, a child, or man and the cause was electrocution due to reverse polarity on a 120 vac circuit in conjunction with a grounding/neutral problem. An indicated reverse polarity problem should be immediately found and corrected.
You cannot trust the three light polarity testers like these to test polarity and ground/neutral connections because they can indicate everything is OK when there is a problem. I ran into this with a friends RV. His family was getting shocked anytime they would touch the outside skin, steps, grab handle or any other metal part of the RV. The three light tester said the RV was OK when it obviously wasn't. I could push one lead of my voltmeter into the lawn and measure 120 vac from the skin of the RV.
The problem was the outlet in the house which had a bootleg ground and reverse polarity. Once we plugged the RV into a different outlet the shock problem was cured. The landlord fixed the bootleg ground and reverse polarity problem in the house.
This article discusses bootleg grounds and how to test for reverse polarity with a non-contact voltage tester. This article is referenced in the sticky "I get shocked when touching RV" at the beginning of the Electrical forum.
As a side note, if you have a three wire extension cord with the ground prong cut off or missing, I recommend you immediately stop using the cord. Have it repaired by a qualified person or cut it up in small pieces and recycle it. The missing ground prong eliminates the safety ground and allows the cord to be plugged in "upside down" which will result in reverse polarity at the other end of the cord and for the equipment plugged into the cord. This can result in electrocution and death.
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2016 Wildcat Maxx 23DKS
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03-23-2017, 11:39 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
Posts: 3,477
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23dks, to further compound this, his buddy apparently has 50 amp service, so leads connected wrong could really cause issues (such as 240 volts).
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Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
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03-25-2017, 07:02 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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Ok, I checked every thing at the breaker box. All is well there.I'm going to start looking at the recepticals. Maybe they are changed and on is wired wrong..Every receptical in the camper shows reversed polarity on my plug checker. I'm going to start with the closest from the breaker box and go from there.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-25-2017, 08:19 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
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Check your wires where they first connect to the converter. It sounds like two of them are reversed. You will most likely have to remove the converter to get to them.
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Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
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03-26-2017, 09:09 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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I can see the wires where they hook to the convertor. Black to - and red to + .The convertor has a 110 plug in for power in the basement.It's a Progressive model convertor. This thing has a generator switch also. I'll check in the make up box and see if it has something not right there.There is no genny at this time. Thanks for sticking with me on this.
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
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03-26-2017, 09:41 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
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the black and red are the 12V side of the converter can you check where the 110V is connected to the converter to ensure it is correctly connected. Black to power, white to natural, green to ground. just my thoughts
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03-26-2017, 10:28 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 691
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I'll check the plug in where the converter plugs in. I guess I don't understand how that would make the 110 receptacles show reverse polarity. 12 v side is fine.????
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2011 Ram Mega Cab 3500 Larimie dually
2016 Chaparral 370FL
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03-26-2017, 04:49 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
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This is 50 amps, right? The black and red on the input side are both hot, or +. They can be hooked to either + terminal, if the terminals are marked. The white is the neutral and must be hooked to the neutral terminal. The green wire is the ground.
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Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
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03-26-2017, 05:16 PM
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#20
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Popup graduate
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 36
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The converter will not affect the polarity of the 120v plugs in the trailer so you can ignore that part of the system.
You mentioned in your first post that a Tech said you had reverse polarity on the trailer and a wire was switched on the 30 amp receptacle. You also mentioned that the plugin tester didn't show reverse polarity before the wire was switched on the 30 amp receptacle and now the plugin tester does show reverse polarity. It sounds like the trailer was OK before the the wire was switched so the wire needs to be switched back the way it was.
If the electrical system follows the National Electrical Code, on the ac system the black, red, or other color wire should be on the hot screws. The hot screws should be marked "hot" or "line" and use brass colored screws. The white wire should be on the neutral screws. The neutral screws should be marked "neutral" and use silver colored screws. The green wire should be on the ground screw. The ground screw should be marked ground and the screw should be green and typically has a hex head in addition to a straight or phillips slot.
As a side note, the plugin polarity testers cannot be depended on to give a correct polarity indication in all cases. If the plugin tester shows reverse polarity it is probably correct. See the the first Sticky under the Electrical forum, "I get shocked when touching RV". It links to this article which describes how to test polarity with a non-contact capacitive voltage tester.
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