Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2016, 05:05 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cape Breton
Posts: 283
Generator and UPS Question

Has anyone used a non invertertor generator with a APC UPS that has voltage regulation built in? Read online a lot of people are using this set up in their home, APC1300 with a generator with great success saving thousands.
__________________
2015 Sandpiper 30IOK
2019 GMC 2500HD 6.6 Duramax
X96mnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 05:08 PM   #2
Who Dares, Wins
 
doc73's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Chester County, PA
Posts: 7,063
Is the plan to use the generator at home? The reason I ask is you will have some every sad neighbors at the campground if that is what it is for.
__________________

Pat, Jen, Heather & Sapphire, the head mouser.
2015 Chevy HD D-Max
2022 Impression 315MB
doc73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 05:33 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
OntarioFireFighter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 175
Saving money as compared to what?

And depending on the quality of the generator output, the UPS can be pretty unhappy...
__________________
2014 Grey Wolf 28BH, behind a 2015 F350 Diesel Crew Cab

Nights Camped 2016: 44

Nights Booked 2017: 11
Nights Camped 2017: 6
OntarioFireFighter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 05:54 PM   #4
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 15,265
Very inefficient system. Also even a 1000W UPS is very heavy. Not to mention the generator noise. Non-inverter generator will cause UPS alarm to activate so unless you have one where you can disable alarm you won't sleep.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2016, 11:11 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Too Tall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Are you talking about an UPS with a battery backup for computers and low wattage needs? I don't see how that's going to save money, with or without a generator. Running a generator in place of municipal power is not competitive even at the low current fuel prices.
__________________
Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
Too Tall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 12:30 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cape Breton
Posts: 283
No I have a generator and pannel setup at home.

Cheaper as in a $499 generator and a $250 UPS compared to. $3500 inverter generator, cdn.

This is not to use instead of shore power, to use when there is no shore power.

Not worried about neighbours where this is used.

They are being run in homes with non inverter generators and not alarming. But only know of two.
__________________
2015 Sandpiper 30IOK
2019 GMC 2500HD 6.6 Duramax
X96mnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 11:39 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Too Tall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
If noise isn't an issue, why not just run off of the generator, without an invertor and get the full wattage?
__________________
Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
Too Tall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 12:56 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 446
Are you asking if running the generator output through a UPS changes the sine wave of the voltage? If so, then I see where you are coming from. I haven't personally used this, but it might work. Personally, it would seem that the best practice would be to run the genny output through a UPS without batteries would be the best way to convert the output to pure sine wave, so that appliances in the RV would have "conditioned power", as opposed to the "dirty power" that comes out of a standard generator. That would bea good thing, but not sure if the circuitry in a UPS does this.
MOODMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 01:03 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,102
How big of a ups are you looking at using? I just bought a 2800W peak 2600W running inverter generator for $799 cdn.
__________________
Ontario

Current: 2019 Sunseeker 2290S
Previous (2012-2016): 2012 Vibe 6501
1 Prospector Canoe, 2 Mtn. Bikes & 4 Hiking Boots
Happy Vibe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 06:00 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cape Breton
Posts: 283
Too Tall: Regular Generators are know to have poor voltage regulation and put out what is commonly referred to as "dirty power". Generators have been known to blow up electronics such as smart phones, laptops, newer electronics and cause issues with the converter in the trailer. Inverter Generators with manage the voltage and power are more expensive because of this and what I am trying to do is bypass the purchase of an expensive generator by inserting a voltage regulation and serge protector into the line for an extra $200 instead of an extra $2500 in cost.

Moodman: Some of the terms you use I have heard of reading up on the topic but not positive what they all mean. Basically I am looking to start a regular 4500 generator, run the line to a APC 1300 then plug the trailer into the APC. The APC will handle a solid 20amp load, although I have multiple electronics we can capably manage our use on a 20amp service. I just want to cut out the chance of blowing up my gear.

Happy vibe: looking at a APC 1300 UPS. Not looking for the battery back up part but the voltage and serge protection. The generator I am looking at is the Honda EU3000I. What kind of generator and where did you buy for 799.
__________________
2015 Sandpiper 30IOK
2019 GMC 2500HD 6.6 Duramax
X96mnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 06:18 PM   #11
Denver, CO
 
garbonz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,102
Your idea should work fine depending on the specs of the APC UPS. If some folks are using this approach off the grid, they can be pretty clever. On the other hand, voltage regulation and surge protection, per se, has nothing to do with the square wave problem that conventional generators have and that causes most of the problem with electronics. If the dirty power is dirty because of fluxuating voltage that is one thing, but if it is because of a square wave AC shape instead of sine wave, then the issue may not be solved.
__________________
2017 Fuse 23T
garbonz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2016, 07:48 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Too Tall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 939
Yes, I see your concern. I ran my laptop and other stuff off a standard generator for years without problem. We did usually use a UPS for desktops just to prevent from losing data if the genset shut down. Laptops and cellphones have their own built in UPS since all you are doing with the AC power is charging a battery thru a regulated power supply.
__________________
Rockwood 2104S, 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel.
USMC 68 -70
Too Tall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 12:29 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: California
Posts: 138
I bought a Boley 3600ESI inverter generator for $999.00 new. use on my TT works great puts out 52dbi. Check on line.
Joe-Barb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 02:09 AM   #14
2012 Solera
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,822
I believe my home UPSs connect the incoming power to the output unless the incoming is interrupted. Unless I'm mistaken, only on incoming power interruption does the UPS supply power from its inverter.
To do what you want - to condition the power by using the incoming to charge a battery, then run an inverter from the battery and use the inverter output to have "clean" power - I believe you will either have to hack the UPS or just get a bartery charger, battery and an inverter (build the device you want from components).
__________________
JLeising
2012 Solera "S"
Calif SF Bay Area
JLeising is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 10:29 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by X96mnn View Post
Not looking for the battery back up part but the voltage and serge protection.
An AC utility demonstrates a typical UPS output. First (leftmost) waveform is a UPS output when AC input connects directly to UPS output. Waveforms on right are a UPS output when in battery backup mode. View Tech Tip 3

UPS manufacturers quietly recommend not using a UPS on motorized appliances. That 'dirty' power can be problematic to motorized appliances. But is perfectly ideal for electronics. Electronics are more robust. So robust that even a 'dirtiest' UPS provides power that does not damage any electronics.

This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with spikes up to 270 volts. It is sufficient and safe for any electronics.

A typical UPS connects AC mains directly to an appliance when not in battery backup mode. It does not clean or regulate voltages. But a manufacturer makes subjective claims in advertising to imply such cleaning. They can lie all they want in subjective brochures. But not lie in specification numbers.

If a UPS does clean or regulate those voltages, then specification numbers defines it (ie %THD). 'Cleaning' numbers are forgotten for one reason. 'Cleaning' exists subjectively. That myth increases sales.

Same applies to surge protection. A hundreds joules surge is converted by electronics into rock stable, low voltage DC to safely power its semiconductors. How many joules does that UPS really claim to absorb or block? Near zero. So few that the surge is made irrelevant by what is already inside electronics. But just enough so that the numerically naive will call it 100% protection.

Tie a knot in a wire. Even that 'cleans' (filters) AC electricity. Then add numbers. It is near zero cleaning. Numbers expose a fallacy.
westom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 11:10 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,102
x69 this is the generator I bought Energizer EZV2800: 2800 Watt Portable Gas Powered Inverter Generator with Electric Start, RV It was on sale for $799
__________________
Ontario

Current: 2019 Sunseeker 2290S
Previous (2012-2016): 2012 Vibe 6501
1 Prospector Canoe, 2 Mtn. Bikes & 4 Hiking Boots
Happy Vibe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
generator

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21 AM.