Generator/ Reverse Polarity Question

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by Swampy

JaysFan64,
Yes, I was looking at the blue pic with the yellow plug with the voltage readings.

You should notice that one of the prongs is slightly wider that the other, that one is the Neutral. The narrower one is the hot lead.

If your generator is wired correctly, as you look facing the 120V outlet, you have the Ground on center top, going clockwise the larger Neutral blade on the right, and the narrower Hot blade on the left. This should match the wall outlets in your home as well.
With the bonding plug rewired and using the resistance or continuity function on your voltmeter, measure the plug for continuity between the prongs If it is wired correctly, you should read continuity between the Ground prong and the Neutral Larger prong only. It should read open between Ground to Hot and Hot to Neutral.

Keep in mind that as you look at the face of an outlet and go Clockwise G,N,H; you look at the prong end of the plug and go clockwise G,H,N. This is and easy mistake to make. If you look at the wire end of the plug it will be the same as facing the outlet or G,N,H.

I would be very cautious with moving any wires around on the inside of the generator control panel. There is generally no common wire color code that they follow when building them and the colors are likely brand specific. Additionally, the wires are cut to be just long enough to fit, so moving them may not even be possible without splicing more wire onto the ends. To be sure of what you have in the control panel, you need a schematic diagram with color coding indicated. Since the generator appears to work OK on it's own, it is a safe bet that it is wired as intended.

If you want to discuss further, please PM me at jimknoch@hotmail.com.

Good luck and be careful. Jim

JaysFan64,
The picture referenced of the plug laying on it's side does appear to be wired correctly with the jumper going from the Ground to the silver lug on top.
I don't seem to be able to paste an image, but the one I was referencing earlier was one that had voltage readings on it. It was showing a reversed hot and neutral to ground via the voltage readings. ....... Jim

[unyalli]

Originally Posted by cavie

In this case the gen IS the service panel

Exactly


The 30 amp plug on the generator is wired wrong. Yes you could incorrectly wire your neutral ground bond plug to match the generator. Why? Fix the generator 30 amp plug or do a warranty replacement () and get a gen that is wired correctly.



-Jeff

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by cavie

the 30 amp outlet on the gen is definitely wired wrong!!!!! Your jumper plug is correct. look at the male prongs ground down neutral to the left. Hot to the right. Now look at your readings on the yellow female aprt outlet. YOU CAN NOT HAVE 120 BETWEEN THE GROUND AND THE LARGE BLADE! you must read 120 between the ground and the small blade and 120 between the large and the small blade. 0 volts between the ground and the large blade. Gen is wired wrong. the same configuration applies to the gen as the plugs. Small is hot large is neutral.

remove the adpt from the gen and do a continuity test going thru the adpt. ground to ground. large blade to large slot. small blade to small slot. If that checks out then gen is wrong.

Look at your two pictures and imagine plugging them together. I think it will come to you.

Very helpful! Thanks

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by Swampy

JaysFan64,
The picture referenced of the plug laying on it's side does appear to be wired correctly with the jumper going from the Ground to the silver lug on top.
I don't seem to be able to paste an image, but the one I was referencing earlier was one that had voltage readings on it. It was showing a reversed hot and neutral to ground via the voltage readings. ....... Jim

I know which pic you mean Jim! That is the Camco 30M to 15F adapter and those voltage readings I noted on that picture occur when I plug in the N-G plug. The surge protector under this condition throws a reverse polarity message and blocks the current. When I pull out the bonding plug, order is restored and it's just the run of the mill open ground error lol

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by unyalli

Exactly


The 30 amp plug on the generator is wired wrong. Yes you could incorrectly wire your neutral ground bond plug to match the generator. Why? Fix the generator 30 amp plug or do a warranty replacement () and get a gen that is wired correctly.
-Jeff

Thanks Jeff! Good point about the warranty and nice thing about this one is they give you 3 years. No harm asking!

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by JaysFan64

So, taking the advice provided here, I did some more testing and found something strange (I think) but don't know what it means.

First step was to build a new bonding plug to see if the one I bought was a dud. The good news is, mine worked the same way as the Southwire one so my money wasn't wasted. The bad news is that I could have made my own in the first place and saved $20.

I then used my multimeter and tested every step of the way...

- Without the bonding plug, voltage showed correctly at both the 20 and 30 amp receptacles. Added the twist lock adapter, no change, then added the 30m to 15f adapter, no change there either. My tester showed "open ground" in all 3 plugs.

- With the bonding plug,voltage showed correctly at the second 20 amp plug and with the tester plugged into that second receptacle, I was getting a "correct" reading.

- With the bonding plug in plus the twist lock and 15 amp adapter I get the HOT/NEU REF error at the 30 amp receptacle. And this is where I am confused... voltage read correctly when the prongs were inserted in the small and larger slots of the adapter. No voltage reading when testing small slot and ground but did get 120 when testing the larger slot and the ground which I understood was the neutral. Pic added for reference.

So does any of this help isolate the problem?

Thanks yet again for your patience and help.

JaysFan64,

The picture that I see when looking at your post shows a 15A yellow outlet with voltage readings. It is showing reversed polarity or Hot & Neutral swapped. In another pose I saw a picture of a yellow plug laying on it's side and it appeared to be wired correctly for a bonding plug.

You need to do a little more diagnostic work to determine if the generator has some wiring reversed ... probably on the 30 A outlet. Set up a table to record your readings. Remember to read the face of both outlets the same way from Ground you go clockwise G,N,H,G
20A Outlet 30A Outlet 20A Outlet 30A Outlet
G N H G N H G N H G N H
G
N
H
I want you to make some continuity tests without running the generator.
So far, you have already verified that by installing the bonding plug, you seem to get proper readings on the 20A outlets, but reversed readings on the 30A
outlet. Using the continuity or resistance mode on your multimeter take readings first without the grounding plug installed: on the 20 A outlet from Round Ground hole to the Larger Neutral slot, then Ground to the Smaller Hot slot. Next, take readings on the 30A twistlock outlet; L shaped Ground to next slot going clockwise (Neutral), then L Ground to the next slot going clockwise (Hot); then between both slots (H & N); Now take readings between the 20A & 30A outlets; 20A Round Ground to 30A L Ground, then Round Ground to Neutral Slot on 30A, and finally 20A Round Ground to 30A Hot slot. Now plug in your bonding plug to one of the 20A outlets and repeat the measurements outlined above.
I am expecting you to see continuity like the following without the plug; 20A Round Ground to 30A L Ground that is all. insert the bonding plug; 20A Round Ground to 30A L Ground; 20A Round Ground to 30A 1st slot clockwise of L Ground(Neutral). Please post if you get any other readings and I can diagnose further.

I hope this will figure it out for you, safely. . Jim

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by Swampy

I hope this will figure it out for you, safely. . Jim

Wow. Really appreciate the guidance Jim. Gives me lots to go on.

[5picker]

You guys are all forgetting... the photo of the 15a adapter plug showing the voltage readings ONLY READS THAT WAY (backwards) when the bonding plug is inserted into the 15a outlet of the generator.

Without the bonding plug inserted, the OP has stated many times the 30a outlet (with the 15a adapter connected) reads correctly.

The generator is not wired backwards.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by 5picker

You guys are all forgetting... the photo of the 15a adapter plug showing the voltage readings ONLY READS THAT WAY (backwards) when the bonding plug is inserted into the 15a outlet of the generator.

Without the bonding plug inserted, the OP has stated many times the 30a outlet (with the 15a adapter connected) reads correctly.

The generator is not wired backwards.

The gen or the adaptor is wrong. That's why I asked for a continuity test of the adaptor. If the Adaptor passes the continuity test then the gen is wired wrong.

Pug the bonding plug away.
We need a voltage reading from the gen without the bounding plug. Then plug in the adaptor and give us a voltage reading. All small blades and slots must be hot to ground and hot to neutral @120 volts. Large blades and slots no volts to ground.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by cavie

The gen or the adaptor is wrong. That's why I asked for a continuity test of the adaptor. If the Adaptor passes the continuity test then the gen is wired wrong.

Pug the bonding plug away.
We need a voltage reading from the gen without the bounding plug. Then plug in the adaptor and give us a voltage reading. All small blades and slots must be hot to ground and hot to neutral @120 volts. Large blades and slots no volts to ground.

The OP has given this information several times and I'm not going back and picking out the specific posts. Again, they have indicated WITHOUT the bonding plug, all voltage tests of the generator outlet and the adapter are correct.

EDIT:
This was the OP's post # 20...

So, taking the advice provided here, I did some more testing and found something strange (I think) but don't know what it means.

First step was to build a new bonding plug to see if the one I bought was a dud. The good news is, mine worked the same way as the Southwire one so my money wasn't wasted. The bad news is that I could have made my own in the first place and saved $20.

I then used my multimeter and tested every step of the way...

- Without the bonding plug, voltage showed correctly at both the 20 and 30 amp receptacles. Added the twist lock adapter, no change, then added the 30m to 15f adapter, no change there either. My tester showed "open ground" in all 3 plugs.

- With the bonding plug,voltage showed correctly at the second 20 amp plug and with the tester plugged into that second receptacle, I was getting a "correct" reading.

- With the bonding plug in plus the twist lock and 15 amp adapter I get the HOT/NEU REF error at the 30 amp receptacle. And this is where I am confused... voltage read correctly when the prongs were inserted in the small and larger slots of the adapter. No voltage reading when testing small slot and ground but did get 120 when testing the larger slot and the ground which I understood was the neutral. Pic added for reference.

So does any of this help isolate the problem?

Thanks yet again for your patience and help.

[JaysFan64]

Hey folks, I think I have this issue resolved! Well, maybe lol

Readers digest version... swapped the location of the white wire from the right side of the 20 amp receptacle to the left side and the black wire from the left to the right. Yellow striped wire was not moved.

When the bonding plug was inserted, the tester went from open ground to "correct" at the 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle. And low and behold, the Surge Guard, did it's six second validation and then allowed the current through. Yay!

One question... voltage on the multimeter read correctly on all receptacles but I was only getting output between HOT and NEUTRAL. I thought I should also see voltage between HOT and GROUND, no?

Big thanks for everyone who piped in here and guided me along

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by JaysFan64

Hey folks, I think I have this issue resolved! Well, maybe lol

Readers digest version... swapped the location of the white wire from the right side of the 20 amp receptacle to the left side and the black wire from the left to the right. Yellow striped wire was not moved.

When the bonding plug was inserted, the tester went from open ground to "correct" at the 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle. And low and behold, the Surge Guard, did it's six second validation and then allowed the current through. Yay!

One question... voltage on the multimeter read correctly on all receptacles but I was only getting output between HOT and NEUTRAL. I thought I should also see voltage between HOT and GROUND, no?

Big thanks for everyone who piped in here and guided me along

JaysFan64;

Yes it seems that the swapping of the leads on the 20A outlets corrected the mis-wiring. You are correct on the voltmeter readings, you Should be reading the same thing from Hot to Ground as you are reading Hot to Neutral when the grounding plug is inserted..... Jim

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by Swampy

JaysFan64;

Yes it seems that the swapping of the leads on the 20A outlets corrected the mis-wiring. You are correct on the voltmeter readings, you Should be reading the same thing from Hot to Ground as you are reading Hot to Neutral when the grounding plug is inserted..... Jim

Thanks Jim. Maybe not out of the woods just yet then. I am going to test again when I get home but pretty sure I took the readings with and without the bonding plug installed and still had the voltage only at hot and neutral. Oi vay!

[cavie]

WHAT? did I read that right? the Gen was wired wrong??? still not correct but he'll figure it out.

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by JaysFan64

Thanks Jim. Maybe not out of the woods just yet then. I am going to test again when I get home but pretty sure I took the readings with and without the bonding plug installed and still had the voltage only at hot and neutral. Oi vay!

JaysFan64;

I think that when you test it with the plug inserted, you will find voltage from both Ground and Neutral to Hot , else your SP would not have worked without an error.

........ Jim

[Rick the Rocket]

Originally Posted by JaysFan64

Hey folks, I think I have this issue resolved! Well, maybe lol

Readers digest version... swapped the location of the white wire from the right side of the 20 amp receptacle to the left side and the black wire from the left to the right. Yellow striped wire was not moved.

When the bonding plug was inserted, the tester went from open ground to "correct" at the 20 amp and 30 amp receptacle. And low and behold, the Surge Guard, did it's six second validation and then allowed the current through. Yay!

One question... voltage on the multimeter read correctly on all receptacles but I was only getting output between HOT and NEUTRAL. I thought I should also see voltage between HOT and GROUND, no?

Big thanks for everyone who piped in here and guided me along

The reason your multimeter read "correctly" is that your were measuring AC voltage. The polarity of each pole referenced to ground was to not in anyway determined in that test. That is one of the beauties of AC it works when wired "backwards".

The problem was evident to me in the pic on post #20. Your diagram of voltage measurements referenced to the ground pin shows that the receptacle was not wired correctly.

I apologize if my explanation is confusing, I am an electrical engineer not a technical writer.

[JaysFan64]

Originally Posted by Rick the Rocket

The reason your multimeter read "correctly" is that your were measuring AC voltage. The polarity of each pole referenced to ground was to not in anyway determined in that test. That is one of the beauties of AC it works when wired "backwards".

The problem was evident to me in the pic on post #20. Your diagram of voltage measurements referenced to the ground pin shows that the receptacle was not wired correctly.

I apologize if my explanation is confusing, I am an electrical engineer not a technical writer.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, had to swap wires to correct the issue and once I took my time and rechecked the voltage and continuity with the bonding plug out and then in, everything worked the way it should. Happy camper now

[cavie]

[QUOTE=Rick the Rocket;2061524]The reason your multimeter read "correctly" is that your were measuring AC voltage. The polarity of each pole referenced to ground was to not in anyway determined in that test. That is one of the beauties of AC it works when wired "backwards".

The problem was evident to me in the pic on post #20. Your diagram of voltage measurements referenced to the ground pin shows that the receptacle was not wired correctly.

I apologize if my explanation is confusing, I am an electrical engineer not a technical writer.[/QUOTE]

I'll pray for you!:r oflblack: