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12-16-2018, 12:21 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amblt
There seems to be some confusion- the unit I am looking at is not an inverter type, and the 12 - 20% figure came from the Champion help desk. I do understand the significance of pure sine vs modified. My question was- is the THD as quoted harmful to such things as a/c and microwave?
It would appear that it may be.
Thanks very much and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all.
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A non-inverter type generator creates electricity in pretty much the same manner as public power systems. A rotating field inside a stator which creates a normal sine wave. Some older open frame generators (real old) can use various methods for voltage regulation and engine speed can affect output but the basic sine wave remains pretty much the same. Newer ones use AVR's (automatic voltage regulators) that control voltage irrespective of engine RPM's although frequency can vary if engine is overloaded.
Where THD becomes a real issue is with MSW inverters. "Inductive" loads like transformers and electric motors suffer the most while "resistive" loads like lighting/heating/cooking (ex Microwave) don't really care.
I have both a Champion 3500/4000 watt open frame (~15 years old) and a newer 3500 watt inverter type. Both put generate a nice sine wave output.
Unless one is running some very sensitive lab or communication equipment don't worry about generators. If you ARE running sensitive equipment then chances are you are already using a power conditioner (either stand alone or incorporated into a UPS.).
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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12-16-2018, 12:52 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: California
Posts: 7,616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formerFR
my coach has a MSW modified sine wave MAGNUM ME-2012 inverter/charger and has never had any issue with power all of our outlets in the coach, including the 120v fridge, the microwave/convection oven, TVs, satellite receivers, computer, laptops, eTablets, device chargers, and the like...
don't buy into the "PSW is the 'only' safe type of inverter for electronics and appliances".
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Some MSW are better than others. Same goes for PSW. They both have a bunch of stepped voltages with more steps the better. There are some supposed PSW inverters that shouldn't even be called pure. Tons of harmonics.
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12-16-2018, 01:32 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,980
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Microwaves do not like MSW inverters.
I purchased a 2000 watt MSW inverter and it run the 1000 microwave at about 500 watts max.
I would not purchase a MSW inverter if you plan to use it for a microwave.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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12-20-2018, 07:37 PM
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#44
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 63
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Bought our kids two Honda 3000si. So they have plenty of flexibility.
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12-20-2018, 07:41 PM
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#45
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 37
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After going through about 8 months trying to decide I went with the Westinghouse iGen 4500. I wanted a generator big enough to handle my 13,5 AC and microwave, but not necessarily at the same time. I live at altitude and always seem to camp between 4000-12,000’, which you lose a lot of power the higher up you go. I was looking at the champion duel fuel and their tech support told me I would need two of them to run at my altitude. They also said you lose power on propane and no amount of rejetting for the carb side would get me enough power out of one generator.
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12-20-2018, 07:58 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 241
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fuel injected generator inverter
HDepot has 2 fuel injected generator inverters. You don't lose any power when you use them in elevation and you can store them without the gas in the conventional carburetor problems. I looked at a high altitude kit for a conventional generator inverter and you have to change out the carb. See LIFAN ESI4000iER-EFI and they have a smaller one also... why buy yesterdays
technology when fuel injected generator inverters are on the market?
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12-20-2018, 09:20 PM
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#47
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Phat Phrog Stunt Team
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South West PA
Posts: 3,012
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Just an FYI the Honda 2000's are now 2200's. Check it out.
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12-20-2018, 09:24 PM
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#48
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 58
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Choices
Reading all these posts about generators just makes my decision harder. 😆 So if I was going with Honda, would you recommend a single 3000 watt unit or two 2200 watt units in parallel? It seems I’d get either option for the same price, but more power with two 2200’s? Or what about two Champion 3100 watts in parallel? I’ll only be running one 13.5K a/c, but I’ve always been a “it’s better to have it and not need it” kind of guy.
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12-20-2018, 09:57 PM
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#49
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Brentwood, Northern CA
Posts: 38
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Honda EU!
I have/do owned the EU 1000, 2000, 3000 and 6500, 2 years ago I sold the EU3000 and got a second EU2000 (companion). The 1000, 3000 and 6500 I had purchased used off of Craigslist. Both of the 2000's I purchased new. The 3k was heavy to tote around for the RV so I went with 2/2k's for practicality. 4000 watts when I need it, 2000 when low power is needed with fuel savings, and ease of portability. And why do you need to buy new? My used units are about 10 years old and running well. You can tell if they were abused, most private owners just have them sitting around the house so they have low time. So drain the fuel, add new, change the oil and they are good to go. I also change oil in all of my units at 50 hours, not 100 like the manual says. I think a pair of used 2k's is the way to go.
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12-20-2018, 10:09 PM
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#50
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swj
HDepot has 2 fuel injected generator inverters. You don't lose any power when you use them in elevation and you can store them without the gas in the conventional carburetor problems. I looked at a high altitude kit for a conventional generator inverter and you have to change out the carb. See LIFAN ESI4000iER-EFI and they have a smaller one also... why buy yesterdays
technology when fuel injected generator inverters are on the market?
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Unless those fuel injected generators have superchargers they'll lose power at altitude just like the rest. It's the lack of oxygen that's responsible. What they wont do is run rich and sound like the choke is partially on. The fuel management computer which controlls the injectors will lean the mixture to compensate for lack of oxygen.
This is done automatically by the regulator on Lpg engines.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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12-20-2018, 10:09 PM
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#51
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Viet Nam era Navy veteran
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Command FL
Posts: 170
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I have 1 of the first Dometic 3000 watt gensets sold in US. It is a PSW inverter genset with electric start. If battery dies it is easy to manual start. Wt. is 46 lbs., & makes its own "cart" with 2 wheels & a fold up handle like a wheeled luggage.
Has worked good for us since 2011 FMCA rally.
2 110VAC outlets & 1 round locking 30 Amp 110 AC outlets. It starts & runs a 13,500 BTU roof A/C.
__________________
Let's Roll !
Wolf Alaska
Fury, Dynamax Freightliner Columbia Grand Sport GT GC400GT
Papa Bear, Jeep Commander Overland
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12-20-2018, 11:56 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 145
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I ordered and paid for a Generac 8K before we were ordered to evacuate ahead of Hurricane Matthew, and as luck would have it, it didn't get here until a week after Matthew left.
I bought this one so that I could power my 5th wheel (30A service) and the refrigerator and the deep freezer in my garage at the same time.
The downside of this generator is that it's not quiet at all, it weighs almost 300 lbs and it will only run for 15 hours on a tank of gas, luckily I had 40 gallons of marine gas in the shed because there wasn't a gas station in town that had emergency power or working gas pumps.
It came in very handy when Hurricane Irma came through last year and the power was out for the next 4 days. I was the only one in the neighborhood that had A/C, running water, hot showers, a working microwave, satellite TV and internet.
And it was indispensable to provide power for my power tools during the initial rebuilding phase for my moms house that was flooded when Irma blew through.
Once I can afford a home standby generator that can power everything in my house during a power outage (22.5K, 200 A), I will sell the big one and buy a smaller, quieter, portable generator just for the 5th wheel to get me through until I can afford a new 5th wheel with a built in generator.
Generac's are the cream of the crop for portable generators if you don't mind how loud they are when running. I'm currently trying to find a much quieter muffler for mine or one that I can modify to work on my generator.
__________________
2022 Ford F-350, Lariat, Crew cab, 6.7L Diesel, 4X4, FX-4, train horns.
2020 Puma, 257RESS fifth wheel.
STS1(SS), USN, Ret.
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12-21-2018, 12:49 AM
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#53
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Southern CA
Posts: 31
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Go with the Champion
Got two of the Champions 6 years ago. Run them alone and in parallel. Have never had a problem and never had to clean the carbs. Turn the gas valve off and let them run out. Don’t believe I’ve ever had to pull the starter more than twice.
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12-21-2018, 11:52 AM
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#54
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 78
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Based on the requirements you specify I would stick with a parallel setup especially for redundancy in Alaska. If one dies you still have another to keep your rig essentials running. Honda will likely give you more reliability if you plan to put many hours on them.
__________________
2019 Hemisphere GLX 314BUD with Goodyear Endurance tires
2019 RAM 2500 6.7L Cummins SRW
Husky Centerline WDH/Anti-sway
TST 507 TPMS
Dual Honda EU2200i w/extended run tank
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12-21-2018, 12:13 PM
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#55
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_River
Honda will likely give you more reliability if you plan to put many hours on them.
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How so? Because it's Red? Because it is named "Honda"? Or perhaps because "everyone else has one"?
There are a lot of "Honda Clones" on the market, Champion being one, that have a proven track record for being reliable.
The main reason Honda's are more expensive is that they've established a Brand Name, pay out a lot of money on advertising (propaganda), and charge more because people equate the big name with quality. Those that follow on in the market place don't have as much "overhead" to cover and can charge less for the same product.
FWIW, I've seen portable generators in use that still have the OD paint on them from when they were issued to units during the Vietnam War and then sold "surplus". Nary a one was built by Honda.
One thing to consider. Can you call Honda and have them help you diagnose your problem over the phone than send you a part so you can fix it yourself? Chances are you will be told to take it to one of their "Authorized Repair Centers" (Usually a rental shop or lawnmower repair).
Champion will do all they can to assist you over the phone and even send you the part so you can be back in business in quick order. With two of their generators, over a 15 year period of time (and lots of hours of use) I've needed to contact Champion ONCE. Three days later the part I needed was in the mail for NO CHARGE.
I'm sure there are other stories about reliability for Yamaha's, Predators, Generac, Briggs and Stratton, and all the other dozens of brand names sold today. Just remember, the more money spent of slick magazine ads, TV advertising, and other promotional material, the more the manufacturer has to charge for it. THAT money does not translate into reliability.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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12-21-2018, 12:28 PM
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#56
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 89
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We have the Champion dual fuel 3400 and are very happy with it. Power for anything, including TWO air conditioners. It isn't quite as quiet as the Honda, but very close. We can stand next to either one and talk in normal voices. Move it "just around the corner" and you barely notice it. We haven't yet needed the propane option but I'm glad to have it. It extends the run time without having to carry containers of gasoline.
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12-21-2018, 12:31 PM
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#57
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 89
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Titamike could not have expressed our sentiments better. Champion is, well, champion when called for info.
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12-21-2018, 12:33 PM
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#58
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 9,522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike
How so? Because it's Red? Because it is named "Honda"? Or perhaps because "everyone else has one"?
There are a lot of "Honda Clones" on the market, Champion being one, that have a proven track record for being reliable.
The main reason Honda's are more expensive is that they've established a Brand Name, pay out a lot of money on advertising (propaganda), and charge more because people equate the big name with quality. Those that follow on in the market place don't have as much "overhead" to cover and can charge less for the same product.
FWIW, I've seen portable generators in use that still have the OD paint on them from when they were issued to units during the Vietnam War and then sold "surplus". Nary a one was built by Honda.
One thing to consider. Can you call Honda and have them help you diagnose your problem over the phone than send you a part so you can fix it yourself? Chances are you will be told to take it to one of their "Authorized Repair Centers" (Usually a rental shop or lawnmower repair).
Champion will do all they can to assist you over the phone and even send you the part so you can be back in business in quick order. With two of their generators, over a 15 year period of time (and lots of hours of use) I've needed to contact Champion ONCE. Three days later the part I needed was in the mail for NO CHARGE.
I'm sure there are other stories about reliability for Yamaha's, Predators, Generac, Briggs and Stratton, and all the other dozens of brand names sold today. Just remember, the more money spent of slick magazine ads, TV advertising, and other promotional material, the more the manufacturer has to charge for it. THAT money does not translate into reliability.
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Glad you like your other brands and find them suitable for your needs. And for the casual generator user, any brand will likely do.
But there is a reason why every other generator compares to Honda. Same reason that those of us that depend on and use our generators A LOT have. They last longer and are proven for tens of thousands of hours.
Your arguments about service and parts just doesn't hold water. Never had a problem getting parts, service, or assistance. But then, it's rare that Honda owners need it
So just because we chose the 'red' generator doesn't mean we are gullible sheep and drank the kool-aid as you imply. We chose the best we could afford according to our requirements.
Enjoy your generator and I'll enjoy mine. I'm betting they fit our respective needs just fine.
__________________
Scott and Liz - Southern NM
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL - w/level up (best option ever)
2007 Chevy 2500HD Duramax
Reese Fifth Airborne Sidewinder
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12-21-2018, 02:53 PM
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#59
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 11
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HONDA ! Nuff said.
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12-21-2018, 03:11 PM
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#60
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Mountain Foothills of Southern Alberta
Posts: 1,980
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I agree, Nuff said about Honda.
__________________
2007 Surveyor SV230 - 200 Watts Solar/MPPT Controller - 220 AH Battery Bank (Two-GC2) - 600 watt PSW Inverter - (2) 2000 watt Inverter Generators - LED Lighting
2009 F150 - 5.4 Litre with Tow Package
Boon Docking 99% of the time.
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