Help!!! Lost power in 110 volt receptacles

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

5picker you are correct, most GFCI do have screws, it is the outlets like your last picture that cause most issues.

You know, I've been following these forums for a while and I cannot remember ever reading a post about problems with the clamp-on, insulation-displacement outlets.

Now the contact area is rather small, but I've been running (occasionally) 1500 watt oil-filled radiators on those outlets. That's a huge current density (amps per square millimeter). If anything would have caused a problem, that would have done it.

I really don't like that kind of contact for high currents. I don't even like connecting the regular residential outlets using the push-in holes--I always use the screws. But I have to say that I haven't had any trouble in the trailer and don't remember reading about any.

Larry

[orabun]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Orabun let me make a suggestion. While everything is working make a map of every outlet and which circuit powers it. Do this by turning off all circuit breakers and then turn them on one at a time to see what each one powers.

Great idea!! I'll do that when I get home.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by CedarCreekWoody

Orabun let me make a suggestion. While everything is working make a map of every outlet and which circuit powers it. Do this by turning off all circuit breakers and then turn them on one at a time to see what each one powers.

Some people put stickers on the cover plates of each outlet indicating which breaker controls it. Other people take off the cover plate and write the circuit on the back side with a marker pen. It's less obtrusive that way.

Larry

[ToonArmy]

Originally Posted by 5picker

ToonArmy... you need to read ALL the posts and follow along.

Your suggestion was discussed from the very beginning and the OP (original poster-which you quoted) has seemed to fix the issue by removing the GFCI to check the connections.

Easy big fella. The app on my phone didn't take me to the full thread. It appeared as though I was the 1st one to reply. Why take time out of your busy day to give me grief about it? Let it go.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by ToonArmy

Easy big fella. The app on my phone didn't take me to the full thread. It appeared as though I was the 1st one to reply. Why take time out of your busy day to give me grief about it? Let it go.

I'm sorry you took it that way... big fella.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by ToonArmy

Easy big fella. The app on my phone didn't take me to the full thread. It appeared as though I was the 1st one to reply. Why take time out of your busy day to give me grief about it? Let it go.

Looks like you need a new APP that isn't 2 days behind.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Some people put stickers on the cover plates of each outlet indicating which breaker controls it. Other people take off the cover plate and write the circuit on the back side with a marker pen. It's less obtrusive that way.

Larry

The stickers are required by the NEC. They come with the GFI. It's not just an RV thing. I can't remember how many people have bitched about installing the stickers. I leave them off.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by cavie

The stickers are required by the NEC. They come with the GFI. It's not just an RV thing. I can't remember how many people have bitched about installing the stickers. I leave them off.

No, no. I was suggesting writing the breaker number for every outlet on its cover plate. Even the non-GFI ones.

The tag line in your signature is appropriate here.

Larry

[Mike MLR]

Originally Posted by orabun

I have a 2005 Forest River Cardinal. I've lost power in the 2 receptacles under the kitchen cabinets, the ones over the counter that you plug counter top appliances into. I've checked the breaker box, and there are not tripped breakers. I even tripped them and reset them, but still no power. They were both working about an hour ago. Do y'all know if there are breakers somewhere else besides in the panel box?

Check to see if you have an inverter. Forest River may be using a “Pass Through”. Even though you aren’t using the inverter it is set lower than your breaker. There is a reset button on the bottom. If that is your situation I hope this helps.

[Detroitdeb]

Breaker on onan ?

[gricardsimplycol]

I have had this happen to me . We have different campers but ill tell you what I did. I traced all the wires .I took out the back of fridge. I took out the radio and then I took out the furnace. I was looking for mice nest and or chewed wire. I found nothing. I wiggled wire where I could but nothing .So I decided to put everything back and take it to the mechanic . the funny thing is after I put everything back it worked .

I suggest you have a talk with the camper and tell him this story and let him know the same is going to happen to him and if he don't start working right the get out the tools and do the same.

[hcbarch]

Reset the GFCI outlet in the bathroom. Just had to do it in me Cardinal trailer!

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Mike MLR

Check to see if you have an inverter. Forest River may be using a “Pass Through”. Even though you aren’t using the inverter it is set lower than your breaker. There is a reset button on the bottom. If that is your situation I hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Detroitdeb

Breaker on onan ?

Originally Posted by gricardsimplycol

I have had this happen to me . We have different campers but ill tell you what I did. I traced all the wires .I took out the back of fridge. I took out the radio and then I took out the furnace. I was looking for mice nest and or chewed wire. I found nothing. I wiggled wire where I could but nothing .So I decided to put everything back and take it to the mechanic . the funny thing is after I put everything back it worked .

I suggest you have a talk with the camper and tell him this story and let him know the same is going to happen to him and if he don't start working right the get out the tools and do the same.

Originally Posted by hcbarch

Reset the GFCI outlet in the bathroom. Just had to do it in me Cardinal trailer!

I was chastised for this several posts ago but for the sake of everyone who missed it... the OP reported the problem went away after doing some checking of the GFCI wiring. See post # 46.

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by orabun

Yea, I hope that's what it is. Full disclosure, I had a small electric heater running on it when it quite working. It was plugged into a outlet the TV and satellite was on but after a while, it tripped the breaker. Reset it and it would work again. After a couple of times, I moved it the the receptical over the sink. It worked great for about 30 minutes and then I started having this trouble.

orabun, I suspect that you have a GFCI or the breaker feeding the GFCI tripped since the whole circuit seems dead. Get yourself a Voltmeter and start at the breaker panel. You need to measure on the source side of each breaker and then on the load side. You may run across one that will not fully reset. If you do, then that is the suspect to inspect further and possibly replace. Make sure you trip each one completely off then try to reset. Sometimes they look like they are reset, but are not making internal contact. It is possible you may find a wire pulled out of a breaker. If so, loosen the connector and reinsert the wire and tighten. You mentioned that you are using an outlet near the sink, so it should be one of the 20A breakers in the panel. Usually the GFCI circuits are only 15A.

Generally RV's are wired such that the overload breaker in the distribution panel is the next size higher than the GFCI rating, and most GFCI's are 15A.

If you find voltage on both sides of all breakers, the next logical step would be the wiring to the GFCI from the distribution panel breaker. If the GFCI will not trip, or reset, you may have found the problem. The only thing you can do with that is to replace the GFCI outlet. If you are in a jam and cannot get to a HD or Lowes or an RV parts supplier, you can bypass the GFCI...here's how: First of all make sure you have power to the source side of the GFCI. If you do, then turn it off at the distribution panel. With the back side of the outlet exposed, you should find 2 black wires and 2 white wires and either a green wire or a bare wire. Pull the outlet out of the wall far enough to access the wire connection points and wire nuts on the black and white wires. Disconnect both black wires going to the outlet and join them with a wire nut, then do the same with the white ones. You have now bypassed the GFCI. Turn the breaker back on and test the previously dead outlets. You should now have power. At this point, be cognizant that you no longer have personal protection against ground faults in the bath, kitchen or outside outlets until you can replace the GFCI outlet.

FWIW, when I am running an electric space heater, I normally use the 20A outlet on the park pedestal and a #12 extension cord. This keeps from taxing the breakers and other wire connections in the RV with the high continuous current the heater will draw. (A 1500W heater will draw 12.5 amps at 120volts.That's why a 15A breaker gets hot and trips!)

I hope this will get you out of a jam. Good Luck..... Swampy

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by 5picker

I was chastised for this several posts ago but for the sake of everyone who missed it... the OP reported the problem went away after doing some checking of the GFCI wiring. See post # 46.

and it fell on deaf ears...

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Swampy

If you are in a jam and cannot get to a HD or Lowes or an RV parts supplier, you can bypass the GFCI...here's how: [tells how to do it]

Swampy, I might do this myself in extremis, but I'm not sure I would tell someone else (whose skills I am unsure of) how to do it.

Larry

[myredracer]

If the heater stopped and restarted for no apparent reason, I'd definitely want to know why. Could it have been something as simple as a high temp cutout shutting it off? Did the breaker initially trip because you had other loads running on the same circuit? Is it a defective GFCI? Or something else that has been overlooked?

There is nothing wrong with SCD (self-contained device) type receptacles as used in RVs. They have to meet the extremely rigorous test requirements of UL standard 498. They're standard in mobile homes. The "stab", "IDC", "push-on" connections in them can't be worse than the push-in connections on the back of standard residential receptacles.

The biggest problem with SCD receptacles is improper installation of them in the RV factories. There is a special tool for punching down the wires (romex) onto the stabs on the back of them. The tool is something like $500+. I suspect some workers simply shove the wires on with a screwdriver or pliers. Below is a receptacle I found in a previous TT. It's the 2nd I've found like that, which was in yet another TT. There are two "stabs" per wire and one was damaged and the hot wire was only pushed onto one stab, thus the receptacle is only capable of carrying 1/2 of it's rating. This is obviously not good on a circuit where there is a continuous load like a heater which can run for extended periods. A receptacle like this is a fire waiting to happen.

While you *should* be able to run a 1500 watt heater on a 15 amp SCD receptacle, I recommend installing a dedicated circuit and residential receptacle.

GFCI receptacles in RVs are standard residential type and can be replaced with the same. Because they are deeper, they won't fit in RVs and they use an extension ring to allow them to fit.

[tkom]

My neighbor had a similar issue. He changed gfi and checked a few other things like breakers and things. What I found after starting at the power pedestal was that where the cord plugged into the camper was loose connection After unplugging and reseating. Power restored all receptacles working. Instead of getting the 240 volts required he was only getting half. 110 due to cord issue at the connection. Good luck

[Swampy]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Swampy, I might do this myself in extremis, but I'm not sure I would tell someone else (whose skills I am unsure of) how to do it.

Larry

Larry, I had been reading along and it really didn't seem that he was getting much help. He said several things that led me to believe he knew enough about electricity and I wanted to give him some real help, so I waded in. (I just couldn't see someone's family freezing away at night in a cold RV because no one would help.) As luck would have it, by the time I made my post, I had email notification that he had already solved the problem of loose wires on the GFCI (See post #46). He managed to troubleshoot far enough to locate the problem and fix it.

Some times you just have to trust that people can do what's necessary.

Swampy

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by tkom

My neighbor had a similar issue. He changed gfi and checked a few other things like breakers and things. What I found after starting at the power pedestal was that where the cord plugged into the camper was loose connection After unplugging and reseating. Power restored all receptacles working. Instead of getting the 240 volts required he was only getting half. 110 due to cord issue at the connection. Good luck

A more accurate way to state this would be "Instead of getting 120 volts to all the circuits in the trailer, he was only getting 120 volts to half of them."

A good way to visualize this is to think of that four conductor cable as two cables each carrying 120 volts to half the circuit breakers.

Larry