Lithionics Lithium Ion batteries

[700hauler]

Sorry if this has already been discussed...
Anybody heard of these? How good they are? Cost? I saw them on an automotive tech show called "Truck U" where they were replacing the battery in their Dodge Ram with one of these. I looked on their site and saw they have batteries for the RV and marine sector as well. They claim "increased dry camping time" when compared to traditional batteries. My main concern is cost, followed by capabilities/how long it holds a charge, then how long it takes to recharge. Thoughts?

Lithionics RV Li3 Batteries

[Herk7769]

Man those batteries are HUGE and weigh a ton.
Not sure my Ultra-lite frame can support them.
You can buy a LOT more amp hours for much less in a lead acid deep cycle battery.

If money, size, and weight is no object, a couple of those would be awesome.

[Triguy]

I like the idea. I think its on the bleeding edge of batteries and not much real-user experience out there AFAIK.

I think I saw this company mentioned on another site last year when they first came out with the RV battery but I can't find the link. From what I recall, they can be discharged deeper than 50% without problems and discharged more often and recharge faster. Also, there's no maintenance with a lithium battery.

I believe they are lighter than an equivalent bank of 6-volt batteries for the same number of useable amp-hours.

That's the good stuff IIRC. The bad was the price, which I don't see anywhere on the website. I understand that they are mucho $$$. Also, where can you buy them, how long is the warranty and how do you get service if there is a problem?

[awwall]

We all need a few of these...reasonably priced!!!

12V400A-8D

The WEIGHT: 125 Pounds
The POWER: 12.8 Volts, 400 Lithium Amp Hours
Emergency Cranking Amperage: 2000 A
Charge Voltage: 14.4 to 14.4 V (use the Gel setting on your inverter-converter)
Recommended Charge Amperage: 40-60 A
Max Charge Amperage: 600 A
Internal Impedance: <8Milliohms
Life: 3000 Cycles Minimum at 80% Depth of Discharge
2000 Cycles Minimum at 95% Depth of Discharge
The PRICE Leader: Full Factory Automation, Made in the U.S.A.
The SAFETY Leader: Approved to U.N. International D.O.T. 38.3 for Lithium
Size (L/W/H) in Inches 23x13x11.4
Includes Pushbutton or Wireless Remote NeverDie®, 3 Year Warranty
Download Brochure
$5,787.55

[Herk7769]

2 feet long and a foot square on the end?
Have to admit 400 AH is pretty cool though.

[Happy Vibe]

I'm surprised that you don't need a special charger for these battery's. I was told that lithium battery's needed to be charged in a very specific way or they can get damaged. I wonder if they have some sort of charge controller built in. I know that the lithium ion battery for my drill just stops when it has been discharged to a preset voltage. I know that if you discharge them till there dead they will be permanently damaged, this is why they have the cutoff.

[crasher]

Wow. $5800! I could by half a dozen Trojans plus an onboard generator for that kind of money.

[700hauler]

are they seriously that expensive? Thats crazy!

On the TV show they installed one in the Dodge Ram they were working on. It was the same size as the old lead/acid and weighed only 11 pounds. They said everything about it was better than the lead/acid battery.

I wouldn't imagine the one(s) we would need/use for our TTs would be what awwall posted above. They are probably still super expensive but I don't see them being $5K. Probably more along the lines of $900 a piece.

I look at these like LED lighting technology used to be (kind of still is for some applications) . Super expensive right now but eventually the price will come down to a reasonable range where people feel like its worth it for the benefits.

[Herk7769]

Lithium Ion Battery for Camping with AC and DC Power on eBay!

Crazy indeed

[awwall]

I did not make up this $5800 price tag. I got it from one of their distributors.

Large Scale Deep Cycle Batteries

[700hauler]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Lithium Ion Battery for Camping with AC and DC Power on eBay!

Crazy indeed

Thats definitely crazy expensive...but not $5,800 crazy expensive.

Like I said, I expect this to sort of follow along the lines of what LED lighting technology did and be unaffordable expensive for a while and maybe settle into a more affordable range in the future when its more widespread.

[700hauler]

Originally Posted by awwall

I did not make up this $5800 price tag. I got it from one of their distributors.

Large Scale Deep Cycle Batteries

Never said you did. Simply stated that the one you chose to post the price of likely wasn't what we would typically use on our TTs. They have several smaller, less expensive options (more similar to what we use in the Lead acid department for our TTs) . You picked out the largest 12 volt battery they make.

I think the link Herk posted is more along the lines of what we would use.

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Lithium Ion Battery for Camping with AC and DC Power on eBay!

Crazy indeed

That's an interesting one with the AC/DC outlets and 300 watt inverter.

Let's assume that the price is fairly standard for these things. Doing a quick and dirty comparison, it supplies 100Ah for $1,580. In comparison two Trojan T-105s provide 225Ah at ~$280 for the pair.

But, if its true that these lithium can be safely drawn down 80%, than that battery is equivalent to 160Ah in a regular flooded deep cycle battery (using only 50% capacity).

True, the lithium should last longer over the years but I'm not calculating for that now because we really don't know how many more cycles it has.

If I am doing my math correctly comparing just $/Ah, that lithium is roughly 8 times the cost ($1,580/($280/225)*160) of two 6-volt Trojans. Ouch!

That would make this a very expensive proposition. Of course the lithium in this example provides extra features like the outlets, inverter, maintenance-free, longevity, etc. But still. That's a big price hole to dig out of.

I would need to really think this through (and make sure the "quick & dirty" calculation is correct and include the other benefits of lithium), but it appears to me that the cost of those lithiums currently outweigh their benefits (by a lot) compared to a standard flooded.

(I apologize for the rough price comparison and everyone should feel free to rip it apart )

[Herk7769]

All that said; I love the technology. I can't wait for the prices to become "reasonable" as Lithium Ion has a LONG shelf life. Might be one or several in my future if I live long enough.

[Triguy]

True that!! That part of the industry just needs scale and then the prices will drop.