New RV - Solar System Advice

[camaraderie]

I think it is quite obvious that you are looking at an extremely large investment just to keep some food cold when you're not there.
I do think that the 4 golf carts will be needed for when you are there...and 200 watts of panels would add BACK roughly 50 amp hours a day...or 350 amp hours a week...but I'd go for a generator rather than panels so you can charge regardless of the weather and also run some other stuff. Pack out the refrigerated food weekly instead of trying to maintain it.
Good luck with it all.

EDIT...I posted this without seeing your post above. It might be cheaper to sell the residential and put in a gas fridge! Residential is nice if you're plugged in all the time...but a double door gas is a lot more practical for boondocking.

[Havasu Bill]

If you turn off your ice maker you can possibly save some power usage. I’ve started doing this when I’m boondocking and it seems to help but we’re in and out of the fridge often.I installed the Go Power Overlander kit (160W panel) and 4 Interstate GC batteries. I need to run my generator on top of that but again, I’m using the 5er.
I want to add another panel as well but haven’t got around to that yet.


Good luck!

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

Your disadvantage is the location, you don't get the sunshine hours you need to set up a system efficiently but the advantage is you don't have to place the panels on your roof. You need to find out what the optimal angle is to the sun and then place the panels accordingly. IMO, what you could do is either buy 24 Volt panels or connect 12 Volt panels in groups of 2 (in series) for higher Voltage output, you need more than 12 Volt to charge your batteries and you may not get enough sunshine in your area to get that out of a single 12 Volt panel when connected in parallel.
When we started with solar and a residential fridge we found that our 480 Watt system was borderline, we then upgraded to 960 Watt and are safe now, even here in the Rockies.

It is important to have at least 600 AH nominal battery storage, more is better to make it through cloudy days. Also, you will need good deep cycle batteries, not the hybrid batteries they stick in the rv's. Golf cart batteries or deep cycle AGM batteries are a good choice.

If it was me, I would lay out the wiring for at least 1000 Watt solar, start with 600 Watt capacity and connect groups 2 panels in series and hook them up to a 40 Amp MPPT solar charge controller. There are a number of respected brands on the market.
If this setup is not sufficient, you can always connect one more pair of panels or start a 2nd solar array.
You can find wiring calculators on the internet, I use the calculator from Southwire.

Bottom line is, the initial setup is very expensive and don't expect the system to pay for itself, we are not in the US and Canadian prices are ridiculous in comparison, but when done right you will be in for a treat. We can run our washer and dryer on a good summer day.

We are actually buying this new RV in the US from Couches RV nation. They have given us a price on the 4 Interstate GC2 6 V batteries, $599. I'm not real certain about the cost of these in the US but that still seems very steep.

I would love to go with more batteries if that solves part of my problem but cost is definitely a factor. The series/parallel config I completely understand.....keep voltage high and current low between the panels and the controller seem to be most desirable.

Having said this it will be cheaper for me to buy this gear while I am there picking up the RV so I'm open to suggestions for the whole kit.....and locations where to buy.

I am an instrument and controls tech so I have no issue installing all this, in fact i look forward to it, its just getting the time to educate myself on this prior to picking up the RV in April or May. It seems I came to the right spot.

[Newfiestang50]

Also, we have a 16ft wide by 40ft long deck at ground level which I plan on roofing over for at least 16ft so this could be an ideal location to install the panels. As mentioned shade in not an issue so its just a matter of selecting the south facing side and we are good.

Also, now that its know that this system is likely going to be more expensive I guess I can weigh in the fact that I can likely factor in the fact that I will heave to run the generator less while there so every gallon of gas saved will help justify the cost some i guess.

In the past we ran the gen pretty much from Friday afternoon to Sunday evening when we packed up for home, we easily consumed $30 of fuel in those two days.....every weekend.

[lstoneroad]

Sir. I put 3, 100 Watt panels on the roof from Renolgy. They have all you need in a kit and you will not need to change the batteries. There kit comes with every thing you need mounts, wire, and the box that hooks them all to the batteries. I did have to get a few things of hardware wire clamps to keep the wires from flopping in the wind and then sealed all the screws with white rubber roof caulking. Also drilled a hole in roof to run the wires down to the batteries through a closet. Sealed that up also with the good white rv roof caulking for rubber roofs. I also added a large 40 amp fuze in line from both wires coming from the panels before the go into the supplied black box. I also have the residences refrigerator which runs off ac only and the panels power it and my tv and batteries never go dead. Oh and I got all the renolgy stuff for $400.00 and the instructions are easy to follow. Check out there web site. Good luck.

[Newfiestang50]

Another question, can the RV converter charge the batteries at the same time as the solar system?

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Newfiestang50

Another question, can the RV converter charge the batteries at the same time as the solar system?

Yes it can, but it may be fooled by the charge controller voltage and drop out of bulk since it thinks the batteries are charged (or visa versa). It won't hurt anything but you will not get the sum of the currents from both sources. Best bet is to run the generator when the solar drops out for maximum bang for the buck.

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

Yes it can, but it may be fooled by the charge controller voltage and drop out of bulk since it thinks the batteries are charged (or visa versa). It won't hurt anything but you will not get the sum of the currents from both sources. Best bet is to run the generator when the solar drops out for maximum bang for the buck.

gotcha.....just didnt know if there was some special precaution or transfer switch required, pretty green to this yet....lol.

So it looks like Renogy is available at amazon.ca, some others there but havent see those brands mentioned here or other placed i read.

For the controller, it seems that MPPT is recommended....correct. Should I stick with Renogy or is there another preferred manufacturer.

[ScottBrownstein]

I am a PWM believer but not for grid-tied systems, which almost always run MPPT and significantly higher voltages. Based on your requirements you are really building an off-grid battery charger solution rather than a "standard" RV solution. Bigger panels, series connected since you have no shade, higher voltages...definitely an MPPT system. 600 watts would give you over 40 amps at max sun. I would put the controller and the panels on your deck and just run a heavy duty cable system to your deep cycle batteries in the coach through some sort of high current DC connector.

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

I am a PWM believer but not for grid-tied systems, which almost always run MPPT and significantly higher voltages. Based on your requirements you are really building an off-grid battery charger solution rather than a "standard" RV solution. Bigger panels, series connected since you have no shade, higher voltages...definitely an MPPT system. 600 watts would give you over 40 amps at max sun. I would put the controller and the panels on your deck and just run a heavy duty cable system to your deep cycle batteries in the coach through some sort of high current DC connector.

Sounds good....is there a controller that has Bluetooth or some other means to view parameters on an app on your phone. Would really like to be able to look at the system while in the RV and not have to go into the basement or out on the deck to view.

Also is there a weather proof controller out there, I have seen them in the portable kits bit I would imagine these are pretty basic and lower current ratings. From where this is going I'm looking at a 40amp controller it seems.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Newfiestang50

We are actually buying this new RV in the US from Couches RV nation. They have given us a price on the 4 Interstate GC2 6 V batteries, $599. I'm not real certain about the cost of these in the US but that still seems very steep.

I would love to go with more batteries if that solves part of my problem but cost is definitely a factor. The series/parallel config I completely understand.....keep voltage high and current low between the panels and the controller seem to be most desirable.

Having said this it will be cheaper for me to buy this gear while I am there picking up the RV so I'm open to suggestions for the whole kit.....and locations where to buy.

I am an instrument and controls tech so I have no issue installing all this, in fact i look forward to it, its just getting the time to educate myself on this prior to picking up the RV in April or May. It seems I came to the right spot.

Picking up the major components in the US will definitely ease the pain, having solar panels shipped involves freight and a good chance of stuff breaking plus you can get them for roughly half of what they are here.
I'm not up to date on battery cost, but I do know prices vary widely and you get what you pay for.

If you are considering to put the panels on the roof of your deck then why not build a battery box and a separate compartment for the charge controller and an inverter there as well to keep the cables as short as possible and try to find used forklift batteries, they sometimes come up dirt cheap, are heavy as heck but who cares. All you got to do is run a 120 Volt cable from your inverter back to the rv.
Also, as long as the wiring is laid out for the final capacity of the system there is no need to do it all at once, do it in stages, you can still use the generator as backup to charge the batteries.
Lots of options.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by ScottBrownstein

I am a PWM believer but not for grid-tied systems, which almost always run MPPT and significantly higher voltages. Based on your requirements you are really building an off-grid battery charger solution rather than a "standard" RV solution. Bigger panels, series connected since you have no shade, higher voltages...definitely an MPPT system. 600 watts would give you over 40 amps at max sun. I would put the controller and the panels on your deck and just run a heavy duty cable system to your deep cycle batteries in the coach through some sort of high current DC connector.

This would still require massive cables depending on the distance, every foot adds to the voltage drop. I would prefer to install the inverter and batteries in close proximity on the deck.

Correction: I didn't think this through, our setup is different. You are right, I'm wrong.

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

Picking up the major components in the US will definitely ease the pain, having solar panels shipped involves freight and a good chance of stuff breaking plus you can get them for roughly half of what they are here.
I'm not up to date on battery cost, but I do know prices vary widely and you get what you pay for.

If you are considering to put the panels on the roof of your deck then why not build a battery box and a separate compartment for the charge controller and an inverter there as well to keep the cables as short as possible and try to find used forklift batteries, they sometimes come up dirt cheap, are heavy as heck but who cares. All you got to do is run a 120 Volt cable from your inverter back to the rv.
Also, as long as the wiring is laid out for the final capacity of the system there is no need to do it all at once, do it in stages, you can still use the generator as backup to charge the batteries.
Lots of options.

Great idea but I think this is more along the lines of running the whole RV off the solar system. My main goal here is to keep the reefer powered through the week. It already has an inverter so no need to add another unless im missing something.

[tomkatb]

We bought(ordered)a cedar creek from couch's a couple of weeks ago. We live in Dayton, Ohio.

The $600 price for batteries is not unreasonable. What I paid.

The said they use 4 interstate golf cart batteries. Likely cost almost $500. Then they will install them and custom make 4 large diameter wires with connections to hook them up.

We ordered the 4 door two way fridge. With full propane tanks that would easily last several months. A couple of 100 watt solar panels would be enough power to run the fridge. Another grand at a dealer. Cheaper DIY.

Remember a full fridge uses less energy. Fill bottles with water.

I was shocked to see dealers sell $50,000 + fifth wheels with residental fridges and series 27 batteries. That would not last 8 hours. 4 GC batteries would maybe make two days. I would worry that after a long day of travel the slides might not have enough power to work.

[ScottBrownstein]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

This would still require massive cables depending on the distance, every foot adds to the voltage drop. I would prefer to install the inverter and batteries in close proximity on the deck.

40 amps isn't really that big (#6) and besides, he has total control of where the charge controller is relative to the house battery bank. My coach has a 70 amp converter located 25 feet from the batteries, besides, a lot of charge controllers have remote sense so the voltage drop wouldn't mean much.

[carlsbad]

Originally Posted by Newfiestang50

gotcha.....just didnt know if there was some special precaution or transfer switch required, pretty green to this yet....lol.



So it looks like Renogy is available at amazon.ca, some others there but havent see those brands mentioned here or other placed i read.



For the controller, it seems that MPPT is recommended....correct. Should I stick with Renogy or is there another preferred manufacturer.

Renogy or any of the other big names are good. Given your latitude and location, MPPT would be preferable.

As for the converter question, remember that every time you switch voltage and between voltages, there are losses. Solar panels are DC, so using solar energy to power an AC inverter to run a charge a charge controller to charge DC batteries is a waste of energy. There are times you will need to run the generator.

I read here about a guy who had 2000w inverter going to his main box/converter and was actually running the converter off of the inverter. Oops.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Newfiestang50

Great idea but I think this is more along the lines of running the whole RV off the solar system. My main goal here is to keep the reefer powered through the week. It already has an inverter so no need to add another unless im missing something.

True, but the money saved on the wiring could potentially pay for a 2000 Watt inverter.

Correction: I was wrong, you will lose the efficiency when you do what I had suggested.
My apologies

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

We bought(ordered)a cedar creek from couch's a couple of weeks ago. We live in Dayton, Ohio.

The $600 price for batteries is not unreasonable. What I paid.

The said they use 4 interstate golf cart batteries. Likely cost almost $500. Then they will install them and custom make 4 large diameter wires with connections to hook them up.

We ordered the 4 door two way fridge. With full propane tanks that would easily last several months. A couple of 100 watt solar panels would be enough power to run the fridge. Another grand at a dealer. Cheaper DIY.

Remember a full fridge uses less energy. Fill bottles with water.

I was shocked to see dealers sell $50,000 + fifth wheels with residental fridges and series 27 batteries. That would not last 8 hours. 4 GC batteries would maybe make two days. I would worry that after a long day of travel the slides might not have enough power to work.

I did ask them about stepping back to the LP/Elect reefer but it was only a 9cuft unit. That would have been fine as we were used to that in our Silverback but they couldn't really tell us how the cabinets would be around the smaller fridge. If it was just going to be a blank panel taking up the space then its was a waste. If it was going to be small cabinets or something we likely would have opted for that. Didnt know there was a double door LP unit available.....that must have cost a small fortune.

As for the slides and power while driving....shouldn't your truck provide enough charge to keep the batteries up?

[Newfiestang50]

Originally Posted by Cypressloser

True, but the money saved on the wiring could potentially pay for a 2000 Watt inverter.

So if i am understanding this correctly I would be inverting the DC through say a 2000 watt inverter and then plugging my RV power cable into it and supplying the whole trailer...thus the cable/wire savings.

As an earlier poster stated wouldn't I also then be recharging my RV batteries also through the RV installed converter and essentially loosing efficiency. Also then I would be then also inverting power back to AC again through the already installed inverter for the fridge. Alot of converting/inverting going on here now.

Please explain if I am out to lunch on my understanding here.

[Cypressloser]

Originally Posted by Newfiestang50

So if i am understanding this correctly I would be inverting the DC through say a 2000 watt inverter and then plugging my RV power cable into it and supplying the whole trailer...thus the cable/wire savings.

As an earlier poster stated wouldn't I also then be recharging my RV batteries also through the RV installed converter and essentially loosing efficiency. Also then I would be then also inverting power back to AC again through the already installed inverter for the fridge. Alot of converting/inverting going on here now.

Please explain if I am out to lunch on my understanding here.

That's where I had a blackout moment.
My only thought was trying to minimize voltage drop at all cost, the biggest inefficiency is usually because of to long of a distance or to small of a wire in the 12 Volt system and an inverter right close to the battery bank would have eliminated this problem.
Here is the link to a calculator I sometimes use Voltage Drop Calculator