New user electrical questions

[Cablet]

Hello,
In just over a month I'll be renting a 28' Xlite 2012 Wildwood. I've never used one before but very much looking forward to it. I'll be attending an astronomy camp in Central Oregon for 5 days. There will be no available 120v or water during the trip. There will be my wife and two boys joining me. I understand the trailer has a fridge, microwave, lights, water pump, tv and who knows what else. I noticed that it has a 140 amp hour battery.

The first and main question is: does the fridge operate from the 12V dc? If so, how long might that last on a full battery? We are fine without the tv and microwave but having water, lights and fridge would be nice.

I've been thinking about buying a 100w solar panel and charger but charging the battery from 50% to full could take days. I estimate we will have 9 hours a day of full sun. At least in the past we have. If the fridge uses a lot of dc amperage then I was thinking about buying a quiet 1600w (peak 2kw) generator for charging the battery. I can only use a generator at this sight for 5 hours a day.

Can anyone give some info on how power hungry the fridge, water pump and lights are?

Thanks for any feedback.

-Cable

[merlin66043]

Normally the fridge will only work on 120V AC or propane. The lights and water pump will work from the battery. TV and microwave will also only work on 120V AC. Water pump will pump from the fresh water tank so make sure you fill that up.

[LadyWindrider]

Don't worry about the water pump, not going to have enough water for 5 days with that many. Toilet and dishes will deplete your tank, don't even think about a shower. The firidge will run on propane, as long as the battery is up to charge. The main problem you are going to have is fresh water and full holding tanks. Shower is about 10 gallons per person. You have 4 people, and that is 40 gallons, will run out of fresh water, and will fill the gray tank after the first night of showers.

[Cablet]

Regarding showers there will be a shower truck at this event so we can avoid showers in the trailer. I'll be sure to bring extra drinking water in the back of the pickup. There will also be out houses nearby so we can use those during the day. Thanks for the info.

[Rsgtivr6]

The fridge will easily run the week on 2 propane tanks since it uses very little propane. The water pump only runs when used. You can shut it off if it is cycling when not in use, but that should only happen if there is a leak somewhere.

Is the "5 hour generator use" rule a window of use or can you run it for an hour here or there for an accumulated 5 hrs? If that is the case, you might want it just to run the AC for a bit if it gets hot. The generator isn't a bad idea either way, though.

I agree with the others in saying 5 days will equal no water by mid week and full tanks, you might want a Amazon.com: Barker Manufacturing Company 11104 22 Gal. Original Tote-Along: Automotive for dumping the grey tank when full if they have a dump station.

Also, what truck (need payload number off yellow tire sticker on door specifically) are you pulling this with and what exact trailer. You might not have room in the truck for extra load if it is a ill-equipped 1/2 ton with a full family load already and a 28' TT will have some good weight to it on the tongue. I see the 281BH is 700lbs dry so keep that in mind...

[Cablet]

Great info. I'm glad to hear the fridge can run off propane. If we get low on that I can run into the nearest town for more (about an hour away). Once i park the trailer though i dont intend to move it agin until the 5 days is done. My truck is an F250 super duty. I thinks it's got an 11000 lb towing capacity but I'll double check for sure. If grey water fills up then just do what we at used to, dishes and washing outside.

Thanks again.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by Cablet

Great info. I'm glad to hear the fridge can run off propane.

The fridge does run off of propane, but as windrider posted earlier, it still needs a small amount of 12 volt to power the mother board, inside light, and cooling fan. Not a lot of current draw.

With the fridge and water pump only, a fully charged 140 ah battery should be plenty to go 5 days. Keep the lights off, and use battery powered lanterns. Worse case, plug the truck into the camper for a quick charge.

You did not state what 28' trailer you will be using. Many that size have slides, which will take power to open and close. I leave my truck plugged in while operating the slide in dry camping areas.

2 full propane tanks should be plenty to run the fridge, strove, and water heater. Heck, I have only filled our 30 lb. tanks 6 times over the last 3 1/2 years, and we do quite a bit of dry camping.

As previously posted, water management is going to be the big concern. With 4 people using the toilet, that might fill quickly. Hopefully, other options are available.

[2Susan]

We have 3 children. Our water tanks, no showers are empty at 4 days being frugal.Biggest use of water is flushing and washing dishes. I suggest turning the water pump off unless the water frugal adult is monitoring. Use your on-board water for cooking.

You need to preserve the battery for running the fridge controls (stays cold on propane, but if your battery is low it will not work). The solar panel isn't enough to keep your battery charged, the generator is a better choice which would allow your lights at night, fans, etc. You could only use the microwave while the generator is running.

So, instead of a week long rental, have you thought of buying? A used unit might already have that generator!

For more good information, search this forum for info on "generators", "solar panels", and "boon docking" or "dry camping".

Frugal water use is a whole mindset. For example will you use paper plates? Wipe as much trace of food from pans and dishes with the paper napkins before washing, use multiple dish pans, the first a pre-rinse - perhaps the water used for hand washing before the meal, then wash water and two rinses, when the first rinse gets too soapy, greasy, it becomes the wash water, etc so that the water is used multiple times. Little children in the bathroom could easily go through 10 gallons of water washing their hands and brushing their teeth without water frugal instruction.

This is a huge teachable moment (month) about water cycle, fresh water conservation etc. Depending on the age of your boys you could do all sorts of interesting projects before/during the trip.

[Herk7769]

Here is an idea of what the amp draws are for your camper.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...aws-17300.html

Some show stoppers you will not be able to recover from:

1) Forgetting to turn the fridge "defroster switch" off. Will by itself kill your battery dead in a couple of hours.

2) Forgetting to turn off tank heaters (if equipped) - See above.

3) Using too many lights, too often. At 1.2 amps per BULB; a 2 bulb fixture can make a serious dent in your battery.

4) Even with a 1600 watt generator, forget the AC and microwave (won't hack the amps and can destroy your generator). If you intend to do this again, invest in a Honda 2000. Pricey but well worth the money. Use a stand alone charger like a "Ship-N-Shore" 4 stage unit (Amazon.com: Schumacher XCS15 SpeedCharge Ship 'n Shore Battery Charger: Automotive) plugged into your generator to charge your battery. Do not try to use the onboard charger; it will take too long and you have a very small generator run window.

5) 140 AH is an awesome battery. It normally takes a pair of 12 volt deep cycle batteries (70AH each) to get that. I question whether a rental has a 500 dollar battery or even a pair of 100 dollar batteries) in it.
http://www.batteryclerk.com/products...e-battery.html

6) Will there be other campers there? Maybe you can talk one into letting you tap into their generator (bring long HD extension cords as you may need them anyway).

7) Water. Where is it and how will you haul it? Once you set up head to town for the local big store (Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, etc) and buy 1 gallon bottled water jugs (easier to handle and no deposit on the jugs).

8) Dumping. Where and how will you do it? Will there be Porta-Johnnies? Use them. A full black tank will really be a hastle since you will need to dump it somewhere. Flushing it out (since it is a rental) could be problematic. When we rented I was pretty dumb about how to do it and I was always charged for not dumping properly.

9) Solar will not do much for you (IMO) as even a 100 watt panel with controller will not replace 20% of what you will use in a day.

[Terier]

Looks like the 28 XLite Wildwood does have a slide. Using the shower trailer and outhouses would help make it through the week.

As mentioned dishing washing can use up a lot of water & using paper plates can reduce water usage. Ditto on using battery operated lanterns.

It's a personal choice but I only kept one propane tank on and will go out to switch over when the first tank is empty. This way I know when one tank is empty vs finding out that both tanks are empty. Beware that using the furnace will eat up propane real fast. I only run my furnace to take the chill off.

Yes to bringing drinking water. Most of us do not drink the water from the fresh water tank.

Good luck and have fun.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Terier

Beware that using the furnace will eat up propane real fast. I only run my furnace to take the chill off.

Ter, thanks for the reminder. It is summer so I never thought of it. The furnace will use way more battery than propane. If you need the furnace you will most definitely need a good generator.

[2Susan]

Originally Posted by Terier

Yes to bringing drinking water. Most of us do not drink the water from the fresh water tank.

uh no

We use our fresh water tank for drinking and cooking. If you don't like the freshwater at your regular house to drink, then I can understand not wanting to bring it on a trip, but our water is quite good, better than purchased bottled water. The exception to using the onboard tank is when we camp in winter, - minus 20 - and we use 5 gallon jugs filled at home. There is no danger drinking water from our fresh water tanks. However take reasonable sanitary precautions. For example, clean the fresh water hose connections by rinsing first and then a bleach solution so you are not introducing germs into the tank. A fresh water hose meant for drinking water - NOT a garden hose should be used. Never ever store the drinking water hose any where near the hose or other supplies used for dumping the holding tanks, and never use the drinking water hose for anything else. Bleach is your friend.

Have you looked at the difference between renting for a month and buying a used unit?

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Terier

Yes to bringing drinking water. Most of us do not drink the water from the fresh water tank.

Good luck and have fun.

i also have to respectfully disagree. people have been drinking from RVs' water tanks for decades, way before our society got addicted to bottled water.

we fill our FW tank with our home water and use it for drinking. doesn't taste any different nor does it create plastic bottle waste.
if you have to, get a Brita pitcher for the fridge, for drinking water.

as a dry camper, i think you really need to think your trip out. your family has never done this type of camping and you'll probably run out of water and battery power in 2 days.
you can't teach water/power conservation that quickly, for most families.

a generator and FW jugs and a gray water tote tank will be a must. unless you have a honey wagon available.
don't worry about filling the black tank. it'll hold a lot more than newbies think they can.

[Cablet]

Thank you everyone for the great info. This will really really help.

My wife and I have been toying with the thought of purchasing a trailer if we really like it. I think it's smart though to first try a rental to see if we like it. We have been to this same astronomy camp several times and know exactly what to expect in terms of environment. We'll use those porta-potties and the shower truck. In the past we used a tent so even without using all of the luxury items (microwave, ac, tv) this will still be an upgrade for us.

I have decided I will purchase either the Honda or Yamaha generator that I've been reading so much about. I'll use it for charging the batteries and running the microwave if really needed. I can run the generator from noon until 5:00 pm each day. I could also use it for my other battery which is for my telescope gear (mount, cameras, laptop, etc).

I like the idea of the paper plates. Our water is great in the Pacific NW so I'll feel fine drinking from the fresh water tank. We usually use these big blue 5 gallon water containers for water so I'll throw those in the back of the truck should we need them. As there's no water at the location we always bring more than we'll need.

Even if nothing works as planned this will still be far greater than the tent on the rocky ground. This place is like the rocky moon only scattered with cow dung.

Thanks for the great feedback.

-Cable

[Terier]

"Yes to bringing drinking water. Most of us do not drink the water from the fresh water tank."

Delete the word "Most" and insert the word "Some".

"Most" came from campers I know & based on using a regular garden hose instead of using a fresh water hose for filling up the FW tank. The taste of tap water vs bottle water didn't factor in at all.

[MtnGuy]

Originally Posted by Cablet

Our water is great in the Pacific NW so I'll feel fine drinking from the fresh water tank.

We drink the water out of our fresh water tank, but frankly I would be reluctant to drink the water out of the fresh water tank in a rental unit. You don't know the history of the unit. Has the fresh water tank been sanitized recently ?? Does the water come from a reliable source ?? Was the water tank filled with a hose that is meant for drinking water, or the common every day garden hose ?? Did the guy filling the tank just finish dumping the waste tanks without washing his hands ??

[Taranwanderer]

I also think that water is going to be a larger issue for you than electrons, but here's another suggestion. If this is going to be a regular thing and you want to go ahead and buy the Honda or Yamaha genny, that's great. But you could also just pack a pair of quality jumper cables, and if the trailer battery becomes an issue, hook the trailer's battery up to your truck's battery and run the engine for an hour or so (a digital multimeter would be helpful here too.) That might just be all you'll need. Good luck and have fun!

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Taranwanderer

But you could also just pack a pair of quality jumper cables, and if the trailer battery becomes an issue, hook the trailer's battery up to your truck's battery and run the engine for an hour or so (a digital multimeter would be helpful here too.) That might just be all you'll need. Good luck and have fun!

There is a thread here that explains why this is an emergency procedure and not something to do regularly. I will find it as I don't want to re-type it. Herk...

Here it is:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...oad-25168.html

[Taranwanderer]

Originally Posted by herk7769

There is a thread here that explains why this is an emergency procedure and not something to do regularly. I will find it as I don't want to re-type it. Herk...

Here it is:
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...oad-25168.html

Ok, I get what this post is saying...you use the TV's alternator to charge 2 different types of batteries, the TVs batt(s) is full, the TTs is not, the voltage regulator is going to apply charge and damage the TVs battery. Do I have that right? Because if that's true, then aren't all of us damaging our TVs batteries every time we plug in the 7-pin and it charges through that? Its the same principle, except on a smaller scale because of the smaller gauge wire. Am I missing something else?

[Herk7769]

The answer, according to the references I cited, is yes if the camper's battery is seriously depleted.

As I understand it, the problem presents itself is when there is a disparity in voltage between the truck's battery and the camper's battery.

The truck's starting battery needs very little charge to "top it off" after starting; while at the same time you are putting a very low voltage deeply discharged battery that has large needs for amperage. The alternator, being a single stage charger, can't manage two batteries with such different needs and will apply too much charging voltage to the truck's battery.

That is the long and the short of it anyway. As I read it (again), the damage is a result of "cooking" the truck's battery is an "over time" sort of thing.

I think you should not "take my word for it" and should go to the library and read the book. I would be willing to see supporting references that disputes his work.