PI EMS keeps shutting off power with Low Voltage E04.

[Duckogram]

Originally Posted by s1njin

I’d never camp without my Autoformer and PI EMS.

I’m wondering why, if low voltage is the issue, there was no conversation about just plugging in a nice Hughes Autoformer. Soooo X2 on the above.

[Ron045]

Originally Posted by Duckogram

I’m wondering why, if low voltage is the issue, there was no conversation about just plugging in a nice Hughes Autoformer. Soooo X2 on the above.

I have to tell you honestly. I have no clue what an autoformer is, but rest assured, I will research it and probably buy one next week.
Got a 100% refund and left the place. Found a new place 30 miles away. Nicer and half the price. The dog is cool and enjoying ourselves around the campground.
Ron

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Photo Lab

This is a wide spread problem, and as we get more electrical toys, it gets worse, as some campgrounds haven't been able to keep up with electrical demands. Having said that, we need to find a solution that works. In my own case, being a retired Industrial Electrician, I bring some differing ideas to the figurative table, not all of which will be appropriate in all cases.

First, while I don't have an EMS, I do have a very effective surge suppressor from GE, permanently installed, and have equipped my power cord with a high quality Hubbell twist lock connector on the RV end, mating with a connector mounted with a digital volt meter inside the "cord compartment". All of my extension cords are heavy SOW cord, and likewise equipped with twist lock connectors. (We go to a lot of Bluegrass Festivals, and often have to put out extra cord) The low voltage/high voltage situation isn't a problem any longer, as I installed a constant voltage transformer, gleaned from an industrial surplus yard. It is made by Sola, good for 4KW, and can be wired for either 120 or 240 volts or both. With an input of about 80 to 140 volts, the output is stable at 125 volts, as long as the power source is 60Hz. These devices, also called "ferro-resonant transformers" are widely available, but not cheap. I would definitely go with used again.

I'm also a believer in the Heart Interface type inverter, which offers 2,000 watts of 120 volts, automatically switches to generator or shore power when available, and automatically charges the house batteries at as much as 100 amps, depending on the model, and installer's settings. This is a multi stage charge rate, of course. The original Heart design is now made by Xantrex, and they will service the older Heart units. Vanner also makes a similar type inverter, superior in my opinion to all others, but priced out of my comfort zone!

Samlex EVOLUTION Series Inverter/Charger also has an internal transformer with dual AC input. It works like a UPS and switches to inverter when power is out of set range.
Samlex Evolution Pure Sine Inverter/Chargers

I just installed an EVO-2212.

[BigRockr]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

You can always do what most of my camping buddies have done, get rid of the EMS entirely. I was going to invest in one until about four of them told me the EMS caused too many problems between situations like yours and false errors. I'll just keep checking pedestals with a meter

Let me get this straight. It is telling you that you have low voltage which is a problem for AC motors. It WILL let you bypass the alert and do whatever you shouldn't and this is why you wouldn't have one. Did I miss something there?

[vasnipe]

See my post from 2014
Pay attention to your power pedestal


http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tal-60072.html


That trip I could have lost the AC, electronics, or the entire rig to an electrical fire. I am now using a 50 amp Hughes AutoFormer I inherited from my parents. Has worked very well in lower voltage situations.


I use a volt meter plugged in the galley area and easily visible to keep an eye on things. High usage times have had the transformer warm and indicating boost phase, boosting voltage. No worries since.
You also need to look for damaged sockets and weak circuit breakers.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by BigRockr

Let me get this straight. It is telling you that you have low voltage which is a problem for AC motors. It WILL let you bypass the alert and do whatever you shouldn't and this is why you wouldn't have one. Did I miss something there?

Nope didn't miss a thing. I'll agree that EMS is good insurance. But like most insurance, you rarely need it. I've only personally known 1 person who actually lost appliances and that was because he himself wired his barn wrong and plugged his RV in to it. It was my 84 year old Father who forgot to check the outlet with a meter as he had taught me to do

We travel a lot and I'm a talker to others in the CG. I have heard the few that actually had EMS, say the EMS probably saved them, but we will never really know. I have never talked to anyone who actually said they lost an appliance, or burned wiring due to not having EMS.

The only place I hear that EMS is absolutely necessary is in RV forums. I believe a lot of optional RV items are sold due to fear mongering and herd mentality on forums.

So, especially since 4 members of my RV group got rid of their EMS due to it being a PITA, I will continue to do without, as I have done for 40 years.

If having an EMS gives you peace of mind, and helps you enjoy your RV, then your $$$ was well spent.

Call me stupid and ignorant, you won't be the first, but I'll spend that $400+ of insurance on something enjoyable to me

[rock-rocker]

BigRokr, my thoughts as well. I'm reading this thread thinking to myself we buy these surge protectors, transformers, EMS's etc to protect out Coaches but when they do what they are supposed to do we want to defeat them in some way or another cause they are doing what we bought them for? I'd either move, go home or save the trip by running my generator. Allot cheaper in the long run. Fridge on propane keeps the beer just as cold as on electric. Happy to hear you were lucky enough to get into another CG.

[W5CI]

If your EMS is shutting down due to Low voltage and that is a Problem, Just remove it and you will be back on line. Why did you buy the EMS in the first place??

[Ron045]

Hmmm. Definitely two different camps with opinions on EMS. Thank you everyone for the thoughts and replies.

We we're lucky to move.
All works. 100%
Campground is much nicer (and cheaper)
DW, kids, and dog happy.

I researched that autoformer last night. Sounds like a nice tool to have. Thanks for those thoughts too.

Having Fun.
Ron

[Ron045]

A camping neighbor suggested I purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone and stay at 50 amp campsights.

His belief is that when voltage drops since my demand is only 30 of the 50, I will be less likely to experience a problem.

I'm not an electrician, but how could that work if we are talking voltage vice amperage?

Not trying to start a debate... I just want to get smarter.
Ron

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Ron045

Ok... Considering going into bypass mode. This is ridiculous... It's shutting off every 2 minutes after starting.

Anyone want to talk me out of it???

Amazing. Spend big money on electronics that protect the electronics in your trailer then bitch about it when it is working just as it was designed to do. You have 2 choices. Buy an autotransformer to compliment your EMS or sell your EMS and take your chances. They don't make a device that does all the work of a Surge protector, An EMS, and an Autotransformer. If you can't understand these devices and appreciate what they do than just plug in your trailer and go have a beer.

[doc73]

Originally Posted by Ron045

A camping neighbor suggested I purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone and stay at 50 amp campsights.

His belief is that when voltage drops since my demand is only 30 of the 50, I will be less likely to experience a problem.

I'm not an electrician, but how could that work if we are talking voltage vice amperage?

Not trying to start a debate... I just want to get smarter.
Ron

We have had a few times where the 50amp was working better than the 30amp. It used to be less used than the 30amp for the most part but i am starting to see more 50amp trailers coming out so that might be changing. I carried a dogbone adapter and when I had trouble with the 30amp connection I moved to the 50amp and it was oftentimes a better connection and better power feed.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Ron045

A camping neighbor suggested I purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone and stay at 50 amp campsights.

His belief is that when voltage drops since my demand is only 30 of the 50, I will be less likely to experience a problem.

I'm not an electrician, but how could that work if we are talking voltage vice amperage?

Not trying to start a debate... I just want to get smarter.
Ron

Well if you try that approach you better stay out of my park. The whole campground is wired with too small of wire size. The did not account for voltage drop due to distance when the purchased the wire. This is what happens when amateurs do a professionals job. The whole place has low voltage. The 30 ampers will drag down the 50 ampers no matter what park you are in. Good luck.

[Ron045]

Cavie, I have read your post 3 times and frankly I have no clue what you are saying to me.

Are you scolding me, warning me, telling me all campgrounds are wired poorly and to expect this?

Why is me using a 50 amp a reason to stay out of "your campground"?

Ron

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Ron045

Cavie, I have read your post 3 times and frankly I have no clue what you are saying to me.

Are you scolding me, warning me, telling me all campgrounds are wired poorly and to expect this?

Why is me using a 50 amp a reason to stay out of "your campground"?

Ron

Using a 50 amp outlet will not solve your problems. ESPECIALLY IN MY CAMPGROUND AND ONE WIRED LIKE IT IS.

No, not all campground are wired like this. Many are. Have a nice day.

[Ron045]

Originally Posted by cavie

Using a 50 amp outlet will not solve your problems. ESPECIALLY IN MY CAMPGROUND AND ONE WIRED LIKE IT IS.

No, not all campground are wired like this. Many are. Have a nice day.

Oh I see. Thank you for the clarification.[emoji3]
Vr
Ron

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by Ron045

A camping neighbor suggested I purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp dogbone and stay at 50 amp campsights.

His belief is that when voltage drops since my demand is only 30 of the 50, I will be less likely to experience a problem.

I'm not an electrician, but how could that work if we are talking voltage vice amperage?

Not trying to start a debate... I just want to get smarter.
Ron

"The voltage drop V in volts (V) is equal to the wire current I in amps (A) times 2 times one way wire length L in feet (ft) times the wire resistance per 1000 feet R in ohms (Ω/kft) divided by 1000"


The Voltage Drop is equal to the Amperage x Distance x Resistance of the wire. Campsites with 50a will have heavier gauge wire than 30a campsite or have a shorter runs.

But some campsites charge more for the 50a service.

[marinerjoe]

I’m confused. Why would 50 amp service require larger wire than 30 amp service. I’d think it would be the other way around. Why? Because 30 amp service is being provided on a single 30 amp hot leg, when 50 amp service is coming in on two 25 amp legs. The only wire that would need to be bigger is the neutral to handle both of the hot legs.

I’m not an electrical engineer (my brother is), but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express not long ago. [emoji6]

[CHICKDOE]

50 amp service is two hot legs each capable of carrying 50 amps. some will say that it can provide a total of 100 amps between the two legs but that is only if the loads are equally balanced. the point is each wire needs to be able to carry 50 amps which takes a larger wire size than 30 amps. the 50 amp neutral wire only carries the unbalanced load and only needs to be sized to carry a max of 50 amps when the load is totally one one leg only.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by CHICKDOE

50 amp service is two hot legs each capable of carrying 50 amps. some will say that it can provide a total of 100 amps between the two legs but that is only if the loads are equally balanced. the point is each wire needs to be able to carry 50 amps which takes a larger wire size than 30 amps. the 50 amp neutral wire only carries the unbalanced load and only needs to be sized to carry a max of 50 amps when the load is totally one one leg only.

What he said.

Bruce