Power and Surge Protection

[FR28footer]

Used our Progressive Industries PT30c EMS this last week. Plugged it in and it went through the check. Once I saw the E 0 message I plugged in the powercord.

All was well. It did work on the 3rd day as we were running the Air and Micro at the same time. Not sure if were drew more than 30 amps or there was a surge as there were storms rolling through. After about a minute the power to the trailer was restored. Checked the SP ans all was well.

I locked it up the as you can see in the picture. Yet another product to give me peace-of-mind.

[Herk7769]

Issues at our campground.

When I hooked up on arrival I do as I always do and checked power at the pole and all was solid at 120 VAC.

Yesterday it was over 95 degrees and everyone running AC full tilt.
Noticed the Franks was in boost so I got my meter out.

Note the voltage at the pole and voltage in the camper.
100.5 volts on the pole and 116 in the camper with the AC running.
Nuff said.

[GASPEDDLER]

Well it looks like I must have been hooked up to a bad 30 amp receptacle at the KOA I stayed at this weekend. When I disconnected my new surge protector from the pedestal I noticed one of the prongs was burned and the plastic surrounding it was melted. I must have had a bad connection and the resulting arching must have cooked the plug. Can I just use a standard replacement 30 amp plug to repair this? I found one by Camco on Amazon for $15. Thanks for the help.http://www.amazon.com/Camco-55245-Po...pr_product_top

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by GASPEDDLER

Thanks for the help.Amazon.com: Camco® Power Cord Plugs with PowerGrip™: Automotive

The 30 amp one is correct. Carefully trim the wires to the correct length and make sure you use the correct polarity when you connect to the plug pins. There is a diagram in the plug package. Make sure the screws are tight and coat them with an anti corrosion compound.

[GASPEDDLER]

Thanks Herk.

[jimh]

Originally Posted by JBJ2003

What are the benefits between hard wired vs portable other than being able to use the portable on other trailers, etc? Seems the hard wired protectors are a little cheaper. I would also think hard wired is maybe a little more beneficial when going from 50a to 30a only because you aren't plugging the 50a into the surge protector then that into the 50/30 converter and that into the pedestal.

there are arguments both ways; i prefer hard wired because u can still produce the problem with each plug u go thru. u may be good coming from the park yet a bad connection after the protector can still give u a problem.

i camped for 19 yrs with out one. finally after reading all kinds of problems from no suppression, i finally broke down and installed an eaton whole house hard wired. i check the pedestal before plugging in the trailer. when u can find them at home depot or lowes (usually mail order), they offer more protection for abt $70. that protects 2 lines. it also makes the voltage checks between each leg including neutral.

one of the pictures of the 30 amp plug with melted rubber around the plug is usually due to extra load on that leg. i have seen the same thing happen to my 50 amp plug when there is not a good contact between me and the park. ie caused by some arcing or extra load.

[JBJ2003]

Originally Posted by jimh

there are arguments both ways; i prefer hard wired because u can still produce the problem with each plug u go thru. u may be good coming from the park yet a bad connection after the protector can still give u a problem.

i camped for 19 yrs with out one. finally after reading all kinds of problems from no suppression, i finally broke down and installed an eaton whole house hard wired. i check the pedestal before plugging in the trailer. when u can find them at home depot or lowes (usually mail order), they offer more protection for abt $70. that protects 2 lines. it also makes the voltage checks between each leg including neutral.

one of the pictures of the 30 amp plug with melted rubber around the plug is usually due to extra load on that leg. i have seen the same thing happen to my 50 amp plug when there is not a good contact between me and the park. ie caused by some arcing or extra load.

I went with the surge guard hardwired. It can be wired in with the generator as well as the shore power. Wide investment IMHO. Thanks for the info.

[Herk7769]

Once again my Franks Autotransformer saved our vacation.

With pole voltages that varied from 98 volts to 121 volts all week, I would have been without air conditioning for 5 of the 7 days we camped (stayed in BOOST for 5 days straight).

Even with the Franks unit we were without air conditioning one day. It was 100 degrees and the park was full. Being at the end of the run, our voltage dropped below 98 volts (lowest my plug in meter would go) and the franks could not boost it high enough to turn my Air conditioner's compressor over.

After several camper's left on Sunday voltage recovered to 120-124 and stayed there even though we were using full air conditioning and microwave at the same time.

This leads me to believe that those campers (and the 3 occupied KOA Kabin renters) were the cause of the problem. By setting their air conditioners at 60 they ran constantly (icing up several window units in the Kabins) and the camper's had their water heater's on AC. By the time it got to the last two spots the voltage had dropped to a point that the air conditioners would not turn over. The guy next to me did not have a booster and left two days early.

Hey folks, if it is 100 outside, do a friend a favor and use propane for your hot water, OK? I know it will cost you a couple of bucks I know, but that draw coupled with your AC on a hot day will kill any campground's 30 amp run.

Set your AC at 80 so it has a CHANCE to cycle. If it runs constantly your unit will ice up and you will not improve your condition inside the camper, yet your amp usage will increase.

FYI - Low voltage will KILL your air conditioner. Why? Because it needs WATTAGE to spin that compressor. If the voltage is LOW it needs more AMPS to make up for it (Watts = Volts times Amps).

For example an air conditioner that requires 15 amps at 120 volts uses 1800 Watts when running. If the voltage drops to 110 volts it needs 16 amps to do the same job. At 104 volts 17 amps. At 100 volts; 18 amps.

That is when it is running. Starting the motor can spike amps up to 20 percent higher so when the compressor first starts blowing and the power is in the 105 range, it can pull more than the 20 amps most air conditioners are CB'ed at and the breaker will trip. This happened TWICE even with the Franks unit doing all it could.

[JBJ2003]

Originally Posted by herk7769

Once again my Franks Autotransformer saved our vacation.

With pole voltages that varied from 98 volts to 121 volts all week, I would have been without air conditioning for 5 of the 7 days we camped (stayed in BOOST for 5 days straight).

Even with the Franks unit we were without air conditioning one day. It was 100 degrees and the park was full. Being at the end of the run, our voltage dropped below 98 volts (lowest my plug in meter would go) and the franks could not boost it high enough to turn my Air conditioner's compressor over.

After several camper's left on Sunday voltage recovered to 120-124 and stayed there even though we were using full air conditioning and microwave at the same time.

This leads me to believe that those campers (and the 3 occupied KOA Kabin renters) were the cause of the problem. By setting their air conditioners at 60 they ran constantly (icing up several window units in the Kabins) and the camper's had their water heater's on AC. By the time it got to the last two spots the voltage had dropped to a point that the air conditioners would not turn over. The guy next to me did not have a booster and left two days early.

Hey folks, if it is 100 outside, do a friend a favor and use propane for your hot water, OK? I know it will cost you a couple of bucks I know, but that draw coupled with your AC on a hot day will kill any campground's 30 amp run.

Set your AC at 80 so it has a CHANCE to cycle. If it runs constantly your unit will ice up and you will not improve your condition inside the camper, yet your amp usage will increase.

FYI - Low voltage will KILL your air conditioner. Why? Because it needs WATTAGE to spin that compressor. If the voltage is LOW it needs more AMPS to make up for it (Watts = Volts times Amps).

For example an air conditioner that requires 15 amps at 120 volts uses 1800 Watts when running. If the voltage drops to 110 volts it needs 16 amps to do the same job. At 104 volts 17 amps. At 100 volts; 18 amps.

That is when it is running. Starting the motor can spike amps up to 20 percent higher so when the compressor first starts blowing and the power is in the 105 range, it can pull more than the 20 amps most air conditioners are CB'ed at and the breaker will trip. This happened TWICE even with the Franks unit doing all it could.

Franks autotransformerrv will be my next purchase. I can see with the hot summer months in Texas and many campgrounds running with 30 amp service it would be a wise addition. Now just to get the TH back, fixed hopefully, and get out and do some camping in it.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by JBJ2003

Franks autotransformer will be my next purchase. I can see with the hot summer months in Texas and many campgrounds running with 30 amp service it would be a wise addition. Now just to get the TH back, fixed hopefully, and get out and do some camping in it.

Franks is not the only unit out there. Hughes, Surge Guard, and Powermaster also make them.

If you look at them; be sure to look at boost stages.

Most are single boost, Franks is a double boost.

Each boost stage increases the amps converted to voltage, so boosting too high can waste amps needed to run your equipment.

There are disadvantages as well. Here is a blog that discusses them so you can get a complete picture.

Autotransformer Use: "Stealing Power?"

JUMP TO THE FOOT NOTE:
Footnote: Although most electrical loads in an RV are "resistive" (meaning a positive linear relationship between voltage and current), an air conditioner (or any other inductive motor) is a special case. If a major part of the RV power usage is due to an air conditioner (a common situation), the above analysis changes significantly. These motors actually have an inverse current/voltage relationship. As the voltage drops below normal, the current rises. At very low voltages, the current increases to the point where the motor may overheat. In this situation, using an autotransformer will prevent the overheating, and may not significantly increase your total power use (it could conceivably even slightly reduce total power use!)

The Hughes is a single stage booster at 10% with 733 Joules Surge Protection
Hughes Autoformers 30 Amp Hughes RV Autoformer

Surge Guard is a single stage 10% booster with Surge Protection (Joules not on web site)
Surge Guard 30 Amp Voltage Regulator - Low Power Booster

The Powermaster is a single stage booster at 12% with 1,790 Joules Surge Protection
PowerMaster VC-30 30 Amp Voltage Controller

Franks is a 2 stage boost unit 8% Low Boost and 16% High Boost with Surge Protection (Joules not on web site)
Frank's Electronics Voltage Booster,Autoformer,Camping on eBay!

[jimh]

For a small amt more looks like the auto former offers both voltage and surge protection.

The auto former doesn't give more watts. As previously stated, the voltage is increased at the cost of amps ie watts in =watt out less the losses thru the auto former.

Capacitors are used to correct the voltage current phase shift from the motor. The auto former is also an inductive load that will shift the voltage current phase. I would be willing to bet the autoformer manufacturer corrected that before its' outlet.

Just another way to state what has already been stated.

[Oakman]

I just received our Surge Guard today. Just in time to try it out when we go camping with friends at Onondaga Cave State Park this weekend.

[Muskyman]

Is the Franks a hard wire job or a plug to plug?

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Muskyman

Is the Franks a hard wire job or a plug to plug?

Plug to plug; but there is a kit available from Hughes that works with the Franks to hard wire it.

[Herk7769]

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post222182

I just got off the phone with Frank Izbinski the owner and inventor of the Franks unit. Read my review before you buy a surge suppressor.

[JBJ2003]

I mounted my hardwired surge gaurd behind the generator so that it would protect on both shore power or generator power. Took the toy hauler out for it's maiden voyage this past weekend. We camped at the gulf in Port Aransas Texas and the camp site was full. I checked the pedestal and it read 118 volts. Plugged the 50 amp adapter into the pedestal and ran the fridge and water heater on propane. Even though I was conscious of running only AC units and nothing else I still tripped the pedestal breaker 4-5 times in 3 days. Once I was running on generator power with shore breaker turned off and tripped the generator breaker which is when I noticed the surge gaurd tripped as well(this was due to dw and friend inside using the micro with a griddle and not being power conscious). After resetting the gen breaker and waiting for about 2 minutes power was restored. My question is was surge protector doing its job while on shore power even though the pedestal breaker tripped? I know that the surge gaurd never tripped as each time i reset the breaker i had immediate power again. Makes me think that I should have went with the portable unit that has the LCD display or Herks advise with the autotransformer.

[jimh]

sounds like it was doing its job. it didn't see a reason to trip. the overload on the pedistle did and tripped.
the only voltage measurement u made was good. i don't see an autoformer doing anything here.

[HVACretired]

Originally Posted by herk7769

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ers-14101.html

Your spot on the auto-transformer should catch both the highs and the lows

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by jimh

sounds like it was doing its job. it didn't see a reason to trip. the overload on the pedistle did and tripped.
the only voltage measurement u made was good. i don't see an autoformer doing anything here.

A power check at the pedestal with no load will only tell you that the post is wired correctly. It is no indication of how it will do under load.

If there is a 20 amp duplex next to the 30 or 50 amp socket, plugging in a voltmeter while you are running the microwave or AC will give you a better clue as to the pedestal's capability to provide steady power under load.

I ordered two of this display for my permanent install of my Franks autotransformer. It will continuously measure volts and amps in and out of the unit. I also ordered a 12 inch set of 30 amp RV pigtails (male and female) to make the wiring easy. The hot lead of pigtail will go through the ammeter "donut" provided with the display.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...E:L:OU:US:3160

[bryan327us]

i purchased two surge protectors from camping world a 50amp and a 30 amp glad i did