Shore power with no battery

wolfemanT · 07-30-2018, 02:57 PM

I have a 2013 Flagstaff popup. The battery is dead. Do I need it if I will be plugging into shore power? Will my AC work with just shore power?

Flash_h · 07-30-2018, 03:02 PM

You only need a battery if there is NO shore power. Otherwise everything will work 110vac and 12vDC

Kaadk · 07-30-2018, 03:09 PM

Yes and no. Yes, your converter will be able to supply 12v to power your 12v items, but that has a few issues:

1) Your converter is now working harder than it's meant to. They're not designed for continuous duty, and are meant to be used to top your battery back up.
2) High loads like slides, jacks, etc... can often use more current than the converter is meant to supply, again, resulting in overuse and shorting the life of the converter.

That's when you have power. Before you get hooked up to shore power, you need to get your trailer there. This is where the 'No' part of my answer comes in. If your pop-up has trailer brakes (and a breakaway cable) you effectively don't have those brakes available with a dead battery. The likelihood of it actually being a problem is hopefully pretty low, but if something did happen, and you needed that breakaway pin to do it's job, it won't be able to.

clr · 07-30-2018, 03:11 PM

Your AC only works on shore power so you will be OK. If you remove your battery make sure that you cover the leads with something non conductive (tape them up). Your converter would still be trying to charge your battery and if you not cover the leads and they short to ground you would blow the battery fuses in your converter.

**bikendan** · 07-30-2018, 03:49 PM

Do you have electric brakes on your popup?
If so, it'll be illegal to transport the trailer without a battery to power the breakaway switch.

Thurman · 07-30-2018, 03:52 PM

I'm not sure about pop-ups but most TT's and 5-er's I have seen have a separate battery for trailer brakes.

bshort · 07-30-2018, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikendan

Do you have electric brakes on your popup?
If so, it'll be illegal to transport the trailer without a battery to power the breakaway switch.

Dang! What's the vehicle code section for that? Doubt anyone that issues citations would know either.

**bikendan** · 07-30-2018, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurman

I'm not sure about pop-ups but most TT's and 5-er's I have seen have a separate battery for trailer brakes.

You'd be wrong. Utility trailers, yes.
Have you owned a TT or 5th wheel?
They all have breakaway switches that use the trailer's house battery to supply power to the switch.
No separate battery for the breakaway switch.

onetonford · 07-30-2018, 04:03 PM

My dad got tired of replacing the batteries in his fiver he was living in and decided to just use the converter. After awhile his 12v lights started to burn out (they were the old style florescent lights). He had me check to see if he had some wiring issues and come to find out that the converter was the problem. without the battery the converter was putting out DC with some leakage of AC and causing the Electronics in the lights to burn out. Put a new Battery in and no more issues.

Kaadk · 07-30-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bshort

Dang! What's the vehicle code section for that? Doubt anyone that issues citations would know either.

In Ontario it's at:

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90h08

Quote:

Trailer or semi-trailer
(5) Every trailer or semi-trailer having a gross weight of 1,360 kilograms or more shall be equipped with brakes adequate to stop and to hold the vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 64 (5).

Additional brakes
(6) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations,

(a) requiring vehicles or any type or class thereof to be equipped with brakes or braking systems in addition to the brakes required by subsection (1), (2), (3) or (5);

(b) prescribing the standards and specifications of brakes and braking systems or any class or type thereof that are required by this section or regulations made under clause (a);

(c) exempting any person or class of persons or any class of bicycles from subsection (3) and prescribing conditions for any such exemption. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 64 (6).

Condition of brakes
(7) All such brakes and braking systems shall be maintained in good working order and shall conform to the regulations made under this section. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 64 (7).

However, in the absence of a need for the breakaway, I doubt most enforcers will even be aware that the trailer is technically illegally being transported with brakes that are not in 'good working order'. There's also a bit of a grey area in that they don't specifically call out that the brakes require a breakaway cable, just that the brakes on the trailer are 'adequate to stop and hold the vehicle'.

But, realistically, we're talking about what, $40 for a cheap battery? The brakes don't take much, so any old dual-purpose will suffice as long as the OP continues to only camp with shore power. You don't really 'need' a good deep cycle if you're not really going to use it. Deep cycles are meant for things like boon docking, or keeping your fridge and furnace going when there's an unexpected power outage at 3 am, and all the other times the OP might not have shore power, but if it's just for the brakes, then a dual-purpose will work just fine.

Brother Les · 07-30-2018, 04:46 PM

Get a battery and put in it. You will over work the converter without.

Get a battery.

wolfemanT · 07-30-2018, 07:49 PM

No brakes. It is a light version with no need for brakes.

wolfemanT · 07-30-2018, 07:50 PM

Thanks.

RVBuff · 07-31-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurman

I'm not sure about pop-ups but most TT's and 5-er's I have seen have a separate battery for trailer brakes.

I have 2 TTs and have never been aware of a second battery in either one. Where is it?

**bikendan** · 07-31-2018, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVBuff

I have 2 TTs and have never been aware of a second battery in either one. Where is it?

He is incorrect, as I said in post #8.

lewisra · 08-01-2018, 08:46 AM

My previous trailer’s battery died while on vacation. When plugged into shore power I had no lights. Plugs worked but no lights. I plugged a battery charger into my outlet on side of trailer and hooked to battery. I then had lights. Was there another issue I wasn’t aware of? Lights wouldn’t work without battery.

Brother Les · 08-01-2018, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewisra

My previous trailer’s battery died while on vacation. When plugged into shore power I had no lights. Plugs worked but no lights. I plugged a battery charger into my outlet on side of trailer and hooked to battery. I then had lights. Was there another issue I wasn’t aware of? Lights wouldn’t work without battery.

1) A little secret.... the 'lights' will work without the battery. But it is not a good idea to always do that. How do the 'lights' (and other 12volt systems) work with out a battery, you ask? It is your Converter.. this changes the 110 shore power over to the 12v battery system power (and power your 12v lights). The converter also CHARGES your battery and keeps it charged. Look into why the Converter is having a problem. Are all the Breaker Fuses in the 'ON' position?

lewisra · 08-01-2018, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Les

1) A little secret.... the 'lights' will work without the battery. But it is not a good idea to always do that. How do the 'lights' (and other 12volt systems) work with out a battery, you ask? It is your Converter.. this changes the 110 shore power over to the 12v battery system power (and power your 12v lights). The converter also CHARGES your battery and keeps it charged. Look into why the Converter is having a problem. Are all the Breaker Fuses in the 'ON' position?

So it was most likely a converter issue?

Brother Les · 08-01-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewisra

So it was most likely a converter issue?

That has to be the first place to look with a 'dead' battery and no lights.... Even with a 'dead or NO battery'.... the lights and other 12v systems will work IF the Converter is working fine. If the converter is working fine (no battery) and you turn on every light and radio and water pump, etc... the lights will be dimmer... but they will work. A 'Full' battery will keep all of the systems working at the upper level by pulling power from the battery also and then charge back up when usage is lower. I am not saying that the Converter is 'bad', just a breaker may have been knocked to the off side...etc.

**Bama Rambler** · 08-01-2018, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfemanT

I have a 2013 Flagstaff popup. The battery is dead. Do I need it if I will be plugging into shore power? Will my AC work with just shore power?

Other than the brakeaway issue, it depends on your specific converter. Some converters are explicitly designed to be operated without a battery in the circuit.

You may also like: