Should I install 50 amp or 30 amp service?

[Barnman1]

I am so tired of many people thinking they are giving correct info when they are not. Herk is right though, somewhat. The only thing different with RV 50 amp and a dryer, welder, air conditioner, or stove is the receptacle plug and ampacity, that is how current wiring is done. In the old days they were different, but i wont get into that part. For 50 amp rv the electrician just needs a right sized breaker, and right sized wire for 50 amps then a rv receptacle. I would do the 50 amp wire with 30amp breaker and receptacle, just make sure you have 50 amp spot available at the main panel, if not just wire for 30amp. The biggest thing to make sure of is panel size and room for additional circuits

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

Herk is right though, somewhat.

Always open to learn something new.
What part (or all) was only "somewhat" correct?

[TURBS]

I hope I learn something new today !

[myredracer]

Triguy, you don't say if you are just going to run an extension cord over to the TT from your panel, if you are going to have an overhead cable or if you might install an underground run. You also don't say what you want to use when your TT is parked at home. And you don't say how far your panel is from the front street or utility transformer.

To add to what has been said, you should have someone do a load calculation on your service as is, before doing anything. Your service *could* be sized to the max. as it is and adding your RV load (esp. if 50 amps with A/C units running) could overload your main breaker.

Electrical code rules can vary depending on where you are. Your RV *may* need to be added to your house service load at 80% of 50 amps and if you have a 100 amp main breaker, you may have a problem. But if you just put in a 15A dedicated outside plug for "general" exterior use, it may be okay with the electrical inspector.

If you aren't planning on using appliances, A/C and other heavier loads in the TT and just want to go in and use lights, fans, TV and similar light loads, why not just run 15 amp wiring? It's a lot of bother and expense to upgrade to 30 or 50A service.

If you have voltage drop concerns (from long wire/cable distances and/or small gauge wiring) you may want to install wire to your TT is that larger than what the min. would be for 15, 30 or 50 amps. You don't say if the panel in your garage is the main panel or a sub-panel. If a sub-panel, you need to look at the sub-panel capacity and the wire size to it.

If you want to install wiring underground, if it were me, I would use 1" PVC conduit which will give you the ultimate flexibility. And if you run 50A wiring to the trailer, you have the flexibility of installing a 50, 30 or 15A recept. (with appropriate breaker of course). All depends on what you want to spend...

I am going to eventually install a 30A 120V outlet in our detached carport even though we won't need it, but I'll do it because of voltage drop. Our trailer is about 75' away from our main panel which in turn is about 200' from the front street. I had a 14 ga. (might have even been 16 ga.) extension cord to the trailer over the winter and with a 1000w heater running, and the voltage was around 109V. Not great for heaters as the output varies as the square of the voltage.

[Acableguy06]

Originally Posted by Barnman1

I am so tired of many people thinking they are giving correct info when they are not. Herk is right though, somewhat. The only thing different with RV 50 amp and a dryer, welder, air conditioner, or stove is the receptacle plug and ampacity, that is how current wiring is done. In the old days they were different, but i wont get into that part. For 50 amp rv the electrician just needs a right sized breaker, and right sized wire for 50 amps then a rv receptacle. I would do the 50 amp wire with 30amp breaker and receptacle, just make sure you have 50 amp spot available at the main panel, if not just wire for 30amp. The biggest thing to make sure of is panel size and room for additional circuits

Even this is misleading, there is no difference in a four prong 50 amp 240 VAC dryer plug and a 50 amp RV plug they both plug into a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. You could take your 50 amp dryer or range out to a campground and plug it into the 50 AMP ped and will work just fine as long at it has the 4 prong plug on it. (this 4 prong setup is new code).
(1) neutral (2) 120 VAC hot legs and (1) ground. your RV will use each leg as 120 VAC. However, if you where to run a 240 line from the breaker in the RV to a 50 amp plug in the camper, again you could use your dryer inside if you so desired. Its all the same RV or home, EXCEPT the 30 amp side this is a 120 VAC line only! (1) neutral (1) 120 VAC hot and (1) ground

[Acableguy06]

Some great sites explaining this.
The 50-amp 120/240-volt 3 pole 4
Electrical Adapters
And here is a nice DIY plug tester.
50-amp Tester

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by myredracer

Triguy, you don't say if you are just going to run an extension cord over to the TT from your panel, if you are going to have an overhead cable or if you might install an underground run. You also don't say what you want to use when your TT is parked at home. And you don't say how far your panel is from the front street or utility transformer.

To add to what has been said, you should have someone do a load calculation on your service as is, before doing anything. Your service *could* be sized to the max. as it is and adding your RV load (esp. if 50 amps with A/C units running) could overload your main breaker.

Electrical code rules can vary depending on where you are. Your RV *may* need to be added to your house service load at 80% of 50 amps and if you have a 100 amp main breaker, you may have a problem. But if you just put in a 15A dedicated outside plug for "general" exterior use, it may be okay with the electrical inspector.

If you aren't planning on using appliances, A/C and other heavier loads in the TT and just want to go in and use lights, fans, TV and similar light loads, why not just run 15 amp wiring? It's a lot of bother and expense to upgrade to 30 or 50A service.

If you have voltage drop concerns (from long wire/cable distances and/or small gauge wiring) you may want to install wire to your TT is that larger than what the min. would be for 15, 30 or 50 amps. You don't say if the panel in your garage is the main panel or a sub-panel. If a sub-panel, you need to look at the sub-panel capacity and the wire size to it.

If you want to install wiring underground, if it were me, I would use 1" PVC conduit which will give you the ultimate flexibility. And if you run 50A wiring to the trailer, you have the flexibility of installing a 50, 30 or 15A recept. (with appropriate breaker of course). All depends on what you want to spend...

I am going to eventually install a 30A 120V outlet in our detached carport even though we won't need it, but I'll do it because of voltage drop. Our trailer is about 75' away from our main panel which in turn is about 200' from the front street. I had a 14 ga. (might have even been 16 ga.) extension cord to the trailer over the winter and with a 1000w heater running, and the voltage was around 109V. Not great for heaters as the output varies as the square of the voltage.

I'm a bit overwhelmed with that although I very much appreciate your thoughts.

I am more comfortable with 12 volt and AC, frankly, gives me the willies.

I am lucky that I have a good electrician. I will show him this thread (he's worked for me a long time and will be fine) and ask him to address these issues.

[camper_Lucy]

Run the 50Amp wire, then you can have the electrician either set it up as a 50amp and use a dog bone at the TT end (if you have capacity in the home breaker box panel) or set it up as a 30amp and cap the extra wire. This way you are either ready for the 50amp service when you buy the next TT (oh - you will), or at least you will only need to convert plugs to 50amp and update the service panel. Even as a 30amp you may want to consider using the 50amp plug and dog bone, then the only future work would be on the service panel.

[CamperFan]

If you put in a 30A recepticle, buy the wire youself, and get 10/2. Then there is no way the electrician can set it up as a 220 connection.

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by CamperFan

If you put in a 30A recepticle, buy the wire youself, and get 10/2. Then there is no way the electrician can set it up as a 220 connection.

Never underestimate the power of "Murphy"

Since water heaters are hooked up with 10/2 w/ground, and they are 220VAC, I think Murphy can still make your life a living hell.

They just put the white wire on the second breaker and color the ends black with a magic marker.

[myredracer]

Triguy, good plan to be using an electrician. There can be a few tricky things to address. There are some other code things to be wary of in addition to all the chatter so far.

Hmmm, you know, for under $30, you could just buy a really nice 12 gauge, 15 amp, 120 volt, heavy duty 25 foot extension cord which even has a low temp. jacket. Available in many colors like pink, yellow, orange and even black! Heck, I'd even cover it with a plank if needed to hide it....

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by CamperFan

If you put in a 30A recepticle, buy the wire youself, and get 10/2. Then there is no way the electrician can set it up as a 220 connection.

Originally Posted by herk7769

Never underestimate the power of "Murphy"

Since water heaters are hooked up with 10/2 w/ground, and they are 220VAC, I think Murphy can still make your life a living hell.

They just put the white wire on the second breaker and color the ends black with a magic marker.

I've already decided to buy the TT-30R or TT-50R receptacle for the electrician to install. I went to a hardware store today to check. They couldn't figure out what I was asking for. So much for trying to use the small-town store.

Originally Posted by myredracer

Triguy, good plan to be using an electrician. There can be a few tricky things to address. There are some other code things to be wary of in addition to all the chatter so far.

Hmmm, you know, for under $30, you could just buy a really nice 12 gauge, 15 amp, 120 volt, heavy duty 25 foot extension cord which even has a low temp. jacket. Available in many colors like pink, yellow, orange and even black! Heck, I'd even cover it with a plank if needed to hide it....

Its better for me working with an electrician this time. I'll take the time off to watch him do the install. I'm hoping to learn a few things. I find it interesting, but its not something I've done before.

I've got an extension (50', 15amp, 10 gauge) to the trailer now. The most immediate need (A/C) this summer for guests is the reason for the 30amp service.

(and mine is yellow).

Nice cord, too. Very sturdy.

[Rod Johnson]

Originally Posted by dimurrrw

Just a thought - since you probably (per code) need to dig a trench anyway, why not run water at the same time?

Yep, all that money spent is going to be in labor and equipment usage/rental. I'd drop the coin now and do the 50A and water...

How will you dump the tanks?

I'm sure the electrician will know, but do you run a ground from the panel to the drop?

Or, just pull the the 2 hots and neutral and ground the drop itself?

I know if its a subpanel, it gets its own ground. But, what if its just a service drop?

[acadianbob]

Are you going to run the air or microwave while it is stored there? If so, THEN maybe you need 30A or more. If it is just for storage, then just plug it into a 15A or 20A service to keep your battery up and the lights on. Why go throught the expense.

P.S. I've run the AC through a 20A circuit for short periods of time while the trailer is short-term in our driveway for trip prep. No problem.

Just saying, don't do this unless you really have to.

[Triguy]

Originally Posted by Rod Johnson

Yep, all that money spent is going to be in labor and equipment usage/rental. I'd drop the coin now and do the 50A and water...

How will you dump the tanks?

You guys are great at spending my money!

[Acableguy06]

Originally Posted by Triguy

I've already decided to buy the TT-30R or TT-50R receptacle for the electrician to install. I went to a hardware store today to check. They couldn't figure out what I was asking for. So much for trying to use the small-town store.

The reason they dont know is because there is no thing as a TT-50R, its a standard NEMA 14-50R. The TT-30 I have found at Lowes.

Here is two quotes from WIKI
"NEMA 14–50 devices are frequently found in RV parks, since they are used for shore power connections of larger recreational vehicles. Also, it was formerly common to connect mobile homes to utility power via a 14–50 device."

Also
"NEMA TT–30 (TT stands for Travel Trailer) is a 30 A, 125 V recreational vehicle standard (hot-neutral-ground), also known as RV 30. It is frequently (and sometimes disastrously) confused for a NEMA 10–30. The RV receptacle is common in nearly all RV parks in the United States and Canada, and all but the largest RVs manufactured since the 1970s use this plug. The hot and neutral blades are angled at 45° from vertical and 90 degrees to each other, similar to NEMA 10 devices. The plug is slightly smaller than a NEMA 10 but larger than ordinary 5–15 plugs. The ground pin, however, is round, like those on straight-blade NEMA grounding devices. Referring to the diagram, the orientation is the same as the NEMA 5 plug and socket, with the receptacle neutral on the lower right. The appearance of this plug makes many people assume it is for 240 V, but this is a 120 V device."

[Herk7769]

While it is a very short run from the outlet to the camper, I also only have 20 amps service to the 30 amp socket.

I can run my 15K air conditioner and the TV, plus all the LED lighting without any strain at all. Volt meter shows 115 VAC with the AC running.

If you are located further from the house you will need to take voltage loss in the extension cord into consideration.

[cre10]

Originally Posted by herk7769

While it is a very short run from the outlet to the camper, I also only have 20 amps service to the 30 amp socket.

I can run my 15K air conditioner and the TV, plus all the LED lighting without any strain at all. Volt meter shows 115 VAC with the AC running.

If you are located further from the house you will need to take voltage loss in the extension cord into consideration.

When I first got mine I ran my ac with no problem on 20amp.

Menard's had a 30 amp plug that I bought and I ran 10-2 to wire my 30 amp permanent garage plug.

[TURBS]

Gee maybe I over done mine when I ran 6ga but it was only 2 foot off of 30 amp service to my garage !

[Triguy]

I dislike it when the OP never comes back to tell us what he did with the advice so here's what I did.

I went with the 30amp service (30-amp receptacle with 10/2 wire). I chose to put it on the side of my house about 25 feet away from the camper and connected for now with a 10-gauge 15amp extension cord that I have. This should work fine for my immediate needs – A/C once we hit summer. Although I might replace the cord with a 30amp my dad has no need for anymore.

My guy knew what was needed although I gave him a 15-30amp adapter cord to take with him. He had a hard time finding the right receptacle, though. I really should have just ordered it because of the area we live in.

I opted to do the 30amp after taking in all your comments. Basically, the current trailer only needs it and most likely my next trailer will be 30amp. I would have done 50amp for possible future upgrades if the cost was even close but it was not.

Everyone's comments were appreciated.