Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2017, 10:28 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: oak grove, minnesota
Posts: 15
surge protector

we have a flagstaff micro lite 25bds on order, and are looking at things we need. i know the ea is the one to buy, but do i need a hard wired one, or the portable? pros and cons of each from those with experience here? it wont be delivered for another month or so, it just started its build this week. trying to stay ahead of the game. advice aprreciated!!

tom and edie
rammie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2017, 10:40 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 205
Please use Search-there are so many threads on this you could read for days. Try "Progressive Industries"

*And Welcome! IMHO a power management device(not just surge protection) is a necessity.
pjnlorrie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 08:25 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 13,688
Get a Progressive Industries unit, you won't be sorry. It's more than just a surge protector. It's an EMS unit and with it's lifetime warranty it's the one preferred around here. Weather to go portable or hard wire is up to you. Link:Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea
Wiscampsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 08:37 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Ford Idaho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Idaho
Posts: 9,839
I use this one.

I plug it in when first setting up so it can run thru it's test cycle if all is green I then plug the lite in and finish setting up.



I even use it when plugged in at home.



It has done a great job IMO.

Most here will tell you to get a PI unit, but there are other options out there find one you like and go with it.
__________________
2016 F350 6.7L LB CC Reese 28K 2014 Chaparral Lite 266sab
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." 2014 19 days camping 2015 17 days camping201620 days camping
Ford Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Adony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 263
Something to keep in mind

I have a PI HW 30 EMS system installed in my TT. It works fine when on pedestal power at a campground BUT have now been told by PI not to use it with my Yahama 2000 Generator as a power source. Apparently the generators wave form output could damage the EMS System. Had I known of this in advance, I would have bought the portable system. Now I cannot use the generator when camping unless I totally remove the EMS system or do some extensive rewiring..UGH
This is what PI told me....
Yamaha Generator

Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power. Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power.

For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer.
__________________
Ted
2010 T25KS Wildwood
2006 F-250 SD
STGCM(SW) USN Ret 30 yrs.
Adony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 10:57 AM   #6
Scoundrel
 
HangDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
I just ordered the PI EMS 30Amp portable unit. I chose the PI EMS because it is more than surge protection. It monitors the electrical current coming from the camp ground pedestal and will shut off current to your RV if low or high voltage is detected (protecting your appliances and sensitive electrical components), and automatically turn power back on to your RV once normal voltage resumes. I chose the portable unit so that I can check polarity, neutral or open ground at the pedestal before actually pulling my TT in to the slot.
HangDiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 10:58 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adony View Post
I have a PI HW 30 EMS system installed in my TT. It works fine when on pedestal power at a campground BUT have now been told by PI not to use it with my Yahama 2000 Generator as a power source. Apparently the generators wave form output could damage the EMS System. Had I known of this in advance, I would have bought the portable system. Now I cannot use the generator when camping unless I totally remove the EMS system or do some extensive rewiring..UGH
This is what PI told me....
Yamaha Generator

Please be advised the Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS does not generate enough start-up current which causes the unit to overload. The generator then puts out non-true Sine Wave power. Progressive Industries units are designed to operate only on True Sine Wave power.

For this reason, The Progressive Industries Warranty is hereby void if an EMS Unit is used in conjunction with a Yamaha Generator Model EF2000iS. Any damage sustained to the EMS unit are the sole responsibility of the customer.
Why would you need to remove the EMS? Just throw the bypass switch on the remote display.
Mr Havercamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 11:47 AM   #8
Just as confused as you
 
Scrapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
I don't know that the portable PI EMS has a bypass switch. The PI HW-30C and HW-50C have a button on the remote display. I don't think the HW-30 and HW50 don't have a bypass.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
Scrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 11:54 AM   #9
Just as confused as you
 
Scrapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
Installation / Operation for the HW-30C /HW-50C: http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...do=file&id=201
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
Scrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 03:27 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Adony's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp View Post
Why would you need to remove the EMS? Just throw the bypass switch on the remote display.
In my conversations with PI I asked that very question.. They still said that using the EMS with the Yahama Generator (even in bypass) would void the warranty.
__________________
Ted
2010 T25KS Wildwood
2006 F-250 SD
STGCM(SW) USN Ret 30 yrs.
Adony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 03:49 PM   #11
Just as confused as you
 
Scrapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
How about any other non-true sine wave generator? Unless they specifically say true sine wave they are modified sine wave or square wave.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
Scrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 04:10 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
The only TRUE sine wave generator is a pure AC generator. Digital inverters as found in inverter generators are simply trying to mimic a true sine wave as best they can (and I'm NOT saying they don't do a pretty good job). But even if they say True Sine wave, if there are inverters involved, then I don't believe it.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 04:24 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 621
I suspect that bypass simply activates the contactor in the power management system. Detection and surge suppression circuitry would still be subject to whatever the MG or MGI set is producing.

A 4 KVA MGI would be about the minimum appropriate size to operate appliances in a 30 A trailer or RV. Notably, a typical air conditioner wants capacity on the order of 3 KVA when the compressor is starting.
johnbryanpeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 04:38 PM   #14
Just as confused as you
 
Scrapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
The only TRUE sine wave generator is a pure AC generator. Digital inverters as found in inverter generators are simply trying to mimic a true sine wave as best they can (and I'm NOT saying they don't do a pretty good job). But even if they say True Sine wave, if there are inverters involved, then I don't believe it.
I have a Champion 46596 3500w-4000w generator and they have it listed as a AC generator, don't say what type of waveform it has. It does mention that you can power computers and tv's using a surge protector to smooth out the variance in output.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
Scrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 05:16 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
I have a Champion 46596 3500w-4000w generator and they have it listed as a AC generator, don't say what type of waveform it has. It does mention that you can power computers and tv's using a surge protector to smooth out the variance in output.
I don't think I've ever seen an inverter generator that's over 3000 watts for general sale; not saying there aren't any. (Most of us probably couldn't afford one.)

AC generators make true sine waves because they are using AC generators, which create the sine wave as they rotate. All inverter generators I'm aware of either use an AC generator, which IS a sine wave, but then convert that AC to DC in a rectifying circuit, then the inverter converts it back to an AC "sine wave," OR they use a DC generator or alternator and the inverter converts it to an AC "sine wave." There are usually also step up transformers involved. So anything not coming directly from a rotating generator is almost certainly NOT a True Sine Wave.

EE's please chime in.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 05:23 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 621
This retired EE has already chimed in. Spent fifteen years or so involved in power systems.
johnbryanpeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 05:36 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbryanpeters View Post
This retired EE has already chimed in. Spent fifteen years or so involved in power systems.
You haven't chimed in on "true sine wave" from inverter generators.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 05:37 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,363
So PI says their EMS provides protection from power problems... unless the power doesn't look perfect? That is not a very good stance from PI.

Let me ask this: how would PI know their unit was subjected to an inverter generator?

I guess if they are going to take a BS stance, customers will learn to say they have never used an inverter generator.
325BH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 05:45 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 1,363
surge protector

And another thing...

Progressive Industries sells a "generator plug" for use with a generator to bond the neutral and ground. No big deal there... pretty standard stuff.

What is funny is, they made a video to show how to use the generator plug and use a Honda inverter generator in the video to demonstrate the plugs use. Not only is the generator recognizable in the video, they specifically call out the generator as an inverter generator.

http://www.progressiveindustries.net/generator-plug
325BH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2017, 06:23 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockfordroo View Post
You haven't chimed in on "true sine wave" from inverter generators.
Apologies in advance if I'm rusty.

Inverter generator outputs approximate a sine wave.

At low load, the approximation's pretty good.

As you increase load, and especially if you overload, the inverter output includes more high frequency components; the output gets "squarer".

This can kill varistors used for surge suppression and other electronic components.
johnbryanpeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 AM.