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Old 09-01-2015, 10:14 AM   #41
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Ok Ok I am convinced too. Even though we boondock 75% of the time we are going to get one. I assume Wally World, or any RV supplier will have one?

I am now wondering if I should plug into my genny plug too? Low voltage or surge could happen right? I do not have a transfer switch. When I run off the Genny I plug my 30A chord into a receptacle inside my electrical compartment. I could put the portable SP in between
I use a portable unit and just plug it into the generator and go. With a hard wired unit it is not an option, same thing, just plug and go. Anytime I hook up to any power source I have it in line, even at home. It can't hurt anything so why not?

Jim
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Old 09-01-2015, 11:09 AM   #42
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the images i posted was from our trailer which was not protected.
merely plugged into the power block at the site.
it was an open ground issue? (I'm not an power guy)

The campground attempted to blame a power surge across town for the damages however the owner knew exactly where to dig the next morning to find what I photographed and sent to my insurance company and lawyer when their insurance company refused to pay any of our collective damages.

What the dug up was an alunimum ground cable which was chaulk powder that had been attached to a copper line - no coating for protection against deterioration and was merely electrical taped - some 10 yrs earlier.
I called in a buddy of mine who just happened to be the areas Chief Electrical Inspector and he had them rip up all the work they did in the previous 10 yrs (all done without permits apparently)

https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Articles.asp?ID=279
gives the reader a solid comparison on what units protect against and what they don't
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:03 PM   #43
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Try Tweetys, that was the cheapest when I got mine
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Old 09-01-2015, 01:20 PM   #44
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I don't want to discuss surge protector or not or what brand, but the better ones also protect from power surges caused by lightning and that's why I prefer a portable unit it will stop the meltdown well outside my trailer if - heaven forbid - it ever happens.
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Old 09-01-2015, 05:22 PM   #45
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I prefer a portable unit it will stop the meltdown well outside my trailer if - heaven forbid - it ever happens
Any protector that meltsdown or even fails was not doing protection. Two parameters apply. 'First' is its maximum current. Only some claim to conduct at least 50,000 amps. A protector must be at least that robust to protect from multiple destructive surges such as lightning. And to not be a fire threat.

'Second' is the low impedance connection to earth. Not safety ground; earth ground. That connection should be at least less than 10 feet. Unfortunately, the impedance (ie length of that connection) is not discussed. That impedance determines the 'second' consideration - protection during each surge.

For that completely different surge called lightning, linemen errors, or due to stray cars, the relevant considerations are protector life expectancy and effective protection during each surge. This is completely different from other anomalies such as 200 volts on 120 volt lines, reverse polarity, floating ground, or brownouts.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:15 AM   #46
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That type protector is only needed when low voltage would be a problem for powered on motorized appliances. If motorized appliances are not on, then low voltage is not a problem. Then this type protector need not protect anything.
I have a Progressive EMS. I don't know what you thought I was talking about, but the EMS does much more than just protect against low voltage. More importantly, it protects against a missing neutral which would fry everything in a 50 amp rig and protects against reverse polarity and missing grounds which could fry people!
Whenever you have low voltage, your powered devices pull more current in an attempt to get the power they need. This will cook non motorized devices as well as motorized devices.
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Old 09-02-2015, 09:35 AM   #47
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Whenever you have low voltage, your powered devices pull more current in an attempt to get the power they need. This will cook non motorized devices as well as motorized devices.
It is an international design standard even 40+ years ago. Electronic devices will operate on any low voltage without damage. Or just power off. Tom MacIntyre demonstrated same:
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We operate everything on an isolated variac, which means that I can control the voltage going into the unit I am working on from about 150 volts down to zero. This enables us to verify power regulation for over and under-voltage situations.
... they can and will regulate with very low voltages on the AC line in; the best I've seen was a TV which didn't die until I turned the variac down to 37 VAC! A brownout wouldn't have even affected the picture on that set.
Another design standard has this expression, in capital letters, in the entire low voltage section: No Damage Region.

Low voltage does not damage properly designed electronics. Otherwise even power off would cause hardware damage.
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:34 AM   #48
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When Does Poor Power Quality Cause Electronics Failures? | Sags/Swells/Interruptions content from Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine



"The impact of voltage sag

We can hardly assume our electronic hardware operates from a distribution network with zero internal impedance, receives a pure undistorted sine wave, and never sees line voltage variations of 55% from nominal. Yet that's exactly what many electronic system manufacturers think when designing their power supplies.
The combination of utility- and locally generated disturbances results in no such modest limits. Most utilities are permitted line voltage reductions (brownouts) to cope with seasonal demands. In addition, large motors accelerating high inertia loads, spot welding, and other loads act to further drop the voltage level delivered to our power supplies.
Computer shutdowns and sag-induced logic errors aren't the only problems. Damage to the DC power supply is a greater danger. Reduced input voltage can cause excessive power supply heat dissipation, resulting in short equipment life. What's behind this overheating? While trying to maintain constant DC output as the line voltage declines, the DC-to-DC converter circuit has to draw from the reservoir capacitor. With line voltage reduced, this capacitor experiences deep discharges between the twice-per-cycle charging periods (see The DC Power Supply: How and Why It Works).
Now, electrolytic capacitors aren't designed for deep discharge — and they're not designed for the resulting large terminal variations. So, the excessive capacitor charge and discharge currents cause internal heat dissipation, which produces dielectric stress. This condition results in reduced mean time between failures (MTBF). In addition, rectifiers and DC-to-DC converter switching transistors draw high-peak currents, which raise their junction temperatures. These temperature excursions take a toll on semiconductor longevity."
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:35 AM   #49
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Thanks westom, I wasn't aware of the design standard. Of course the qualifier says "properly designed electronics". I'm not convinced all RV's have such. I know the crummy sound system in my RV burned up before I bought my EMS. It could very well have been a surge or just a component failure. We had left it on when we went out to help our crazy dog cope with our absence. I don't know where the picture is anymore, but there were crispy components in it when I opened it up. This was the excuse I needed to buy the EMS and a Denon sound system!
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Old 09-02-2015, 11:48 AM   #50
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Any protector that meltsdown or even fails was not doing protection. Two parameters apply. 'First' is its maximum current. Only some claim to conduct at least 50,000 amps. A protector must be at least that robust to protect from multiple destructive surges such as lightning. And to not be a fire threat.

'Second' is the low impedance connection to earth. Not safety ground; earth ground. That connection should be at least less than 10 feet. Unfortunately, the impedance (ie length of that connection) is not discussed. That impedance determines the 'second' consideration - protection during each surge.

For that completely different surge called lightning, linemen errors, or due to stray cars, the relevant considerations are protector life expectancy and effective protection during each surge. This is completely different from other anomalies such as 200 volts on 120 volt lines, reverse polarity, floating ground, or brownouts.
taken from post earlier
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