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Old 09-02-2015, 07:54 PM   #51
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Thanks westom, I wasn't aware of the design standard. Of course the qualifier says "properly designed electronics". I'm not convinced all RV's have such. I know the crummy sound system in my RV burned up before I bought my EMS. It could very well have been a surge or just a component failure.
By far, the most common reason for failures is manufacturing defects. We all saw a perfect example: electrolytics that were made with counterfeit electrolyte. Those capacitors were failing years later in computers and numerous other electronics.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. ATX standards require computers to operate even at voltages that low. If voltage drops further, a computer's power controller simply powers it off - no damage.

Purpose of a power supply is to operate on many voltages both avoid and below what is harmful to motorized appliances. Normal voltage for properly designed (therefore more robust) portable electronics is anywhere from 85 to 265 volts. Which means that electronics should be OK even at higher and lower voltages.

That cited article invents 'weak' electrolytic capacitors. If electrolytics were that sensitive, then normal power off (that causes deep electrolytic discharge) would routinely destroy them. Most electronics continue to draw power until electrolytics have deeply discharged. If electrolytics were so sensitive, then incandescent bulbs at 50% intensity would mean all electronics fail. It does not happen.

Low voltage is problematic for motorized hardware - not for electronic hardware. Utility will cut off power if voltage cannot be maintained - to protect motorized appliances. Tom MacIntyre demonstrates what has long been standard design so that even power off does not damage electronics. Most failures are traceable to manufacturing defects. Observation then wants to blame something else using speculation without design knowledge and numbers - such as surges or sags.
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Old 09-03-2015, 07:39 AM   #52
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Westom you cited that "Low voltage is problematic for motorized hardware"
so the same would be same for High Voltage for motorized hardware i would presume?
I'm not an eletrician by any means - ive arc welded a few screwdrivers in my days...

if so i wonder why UST power would state that:

"Voltage Too High, Too Low

Voltage that is too high can cause premature failure of electrical and electronic components (e.g. circuit boards) due to overheating. The damage caused by overheating is cumulative and irreversible. Frequent episodes of mild overheating can result in the same amount of component damage as a few episodes of severe overheating. Like slicing a loaf of bread – you can have many thin slices or a few really thick slices – but when you get to the end, you’re done.
Motors can, on the other hand, often benefit from voltages that tend to be a little bit high. The reason is fairly simple. As the voltage level goes up, the current is reduced and lower current usually equates to less heat generation within the motor windings. There is a point where the voltage level supplied can be so high as to damage a motor but this level is far higher than that for electronics.
Keeping electrical and electronic components cool tends to insure their longevity. Slight reductions in voltage levels may permit many electronics to perform perfectly well while minimizing their temperature. Of course, the same is not true of motors.
Just as higher voltages can help reduce motor operating temperatures, low voltage is a major cause of motor overheating and premature failure. A low voltage forces a motor to draw extra current to deliver the power expected of it thus overheating the motor windings. The rule of thumb for motors is “for every 10 degrees C (50 degrees F) a motor is operated above its rated temperature, motor life will be decreased by 50%”.
More than motors and circuit boards are at risk for damage when voltage levels are bad, but chronic problems with either is often an indication of a voltage problem."

AVR Guide: Voltage Too High, Too Low | UST

either way.
my unit is surge protected by one of the best units on the market...
a couple years ago we discussed a German manufacturer that had devised a surge protectin unit that could also go out and draw power during a loss in voltage from the line - causing other campers units which were not protected to loose critical eneregy.
seems right that I should destroy someone elses enjoyment and capitalize on their not being smart enough to spend 300$ to protect themselves at a campground...
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Old 09-03-2015, 08:11 AM   #53
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either way.
my unit is surge protected by one of the best units on the market...
a couple years ago we discussed a German manufacturer that had devised a surge protectin unit that could also go out and draw power during a loss in voltage from the line - causing other campers units which were not protected to loose critical eneregy.
seems right that I should destroy someone elses enjoyment and capitalize on their not being smart enough to spend 300$ to protect themselves at a campground...
What unit are you using?
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Old 09-03-2015, 08:17 AM   #54
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We have the Progressive Industries Portable Electrical Management Systems (EMS) 30 amp hard wired unit

Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry lea

provide full RV protection against all adverse power conditions. You will feel secure with multi-mode surge, voltage, polarity and lost/open neutral protection. Each unit includes a digital display, scrolling continuously through the power source information: Voltage(s), current, frequency, error code, and previous error code (if applicable). Replacement parts are simply plug-and-play, making repairs quick and easy. As with our portable models, the computer is driven by state of the art microprocessors. Should the software ever change, EMS owners can receive a free upgrade at no cost.

the "RVupgrades" link i posted earlier shows 2 popular styles and manufacturers and mre importantly the differences in protection and warranty.

I don't work for either of them but i know PI products works for me.
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Old 09-03-2015, 08:32 AM   #55
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I am familiar with the progressive. You mentioned a "German manufacturer that had devised a surge protectin unit that could also go out and draw power during a loss in voltage from the line". I thought you had something else other than the Progressive unit.
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Old 09-03-2015, 09:12 AM   #56
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howie70 if you look back a couple of years ago in the forums on surge protections you should find the makers name
Forest River Forums - View Profile: Herk7769 might remember it
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Old 09-03-2015, 02:21 PM   #57
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Westom you cited that "Low voltage is problematic for motorized hardware"
so the same would be same for High Voltage for motorized hardware i would presume?
120 volt motorized appliances will typically work on any voltage variation of maybe 8%. That means voltages above 130 volts and below 105 can be hard on motors. Meanwhile electronics with universal power supplies (ie all portable electronics) might work on any voltage from 85 to 265 volts. Lesser designed electronics should be just happy even at 130 volts (so we design it to withstand at least 140 volts).

High voltage, low voltage, blackouts, reversed polarity, floating ground, and open neutral are some anomalies that RV camper protectors would be designed to detect. No surge protector can detect a missing earth ground. Surge protectors in homes (ie power strips) typically ignore these anomalies. The word 'surge protector' is very subjective. Protectors for RVs are for anomalies more commonly found in campgrounds.

BTW lightning is not one of the more common anomalies.
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Old 09-03-2015, 02:37 PM   #58
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Surge Protector- yes or no?

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Originally Posted by poppytoymaker View Post
I have a portable and I bought a 25' 30amp extension cord on amazon for $30.00. I keep the surge protector locked in the storage compartment while the extention comes through the wall. No surge protector exposed to theft.

I like this idea! Gonna check our set up and see if it's doable for us. Ours is locked to our cable but we still worry when we're not about. Have been in a campground and had fellow camper's surge protector go missing. I felt bad, but like everyone else around us, we were busy. We were setting up and didn't see a thing.


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Old 09-03-2015, 02:59 PM   #59
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I agree, it's an excellent idea. But most 50 Amp cables have the twist connector on the trailer side, that doesn't work with the surge protector and changing out the plug would cost a fortune .
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:14 PM   #60
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Protectors for RVs are for anomalies more commonly found in campgrounds.

BTW lightning is not one of the more common anomalies.
which brings us back to the original topic of surge protection for RV's in campgrounds.

You wouldn't have the stats for RV's damaged without surge protection units installed vs those with wrt lightning strikes in campgrounds by chance?
or how many campgrounds actually get struck with lightening in general.


as a rule of thumb i bring my awning in during storms and unplyug off the power outlet when a storm roles through.

I even turn off my water supply when not at the trailer because I have heard of peoples toilets overflowing and flooding their unit with black tank mess as well, not becasue this is going to happen to me but its better to be safe than sorry.
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